yeah, i would think moving all the rock could have done it... i heard before that everything could be at a tipping point and once you moved it all, you could have had a spike in nitrates... not too sure, id like to see what others have to say

 

I disagree about the moving of the rock causing any death. Ick, yes.

 

not just saying just the rock moving but the buttom layer that is in the sand, stirring it up...

 

how long had the tank been setup before the rock slide? when was the last time the sand bed was disturbed?

G~

 

The rock has been in my tank for 1.5 years. We moved at the beginning of january and I took that opportunity to place new sand bed so it is only 2 months old. I am running about 1.75" sand bed. I don't believe it was the ick because the hippo tang was showing good signs of improvement and had an incredible appetite. The lfs here was suggesting that maybe stirring up the decay build up under the rock caused a temporary ammonia spike. I am not sure though because I would think that the ammonia would stay until I did a water change. I am still learning the ropes though about chemicals in our hobby.

 

how much flow do you have in the system? the only thing that makes sense to me, would be some kind of O2 depletion by the info you have provided. could the pumps have been off for some reason?

G~

 

What all did you test for and post the results. It could be something you aren't testing for....how are the other fish, if any, and the corals? May be that you introduced something into the tank with your hands while rearranging the rock. I know a guy who lost a 300g tank because his son was taking care of it while he was gone and did some maintenance shortly after doing maintenance on his car...didn't wash his hands and killed off almost everything.

 

is there anything else living now?

 

Actually now that you mention it I had all of my circulation turned off while I was redoing the LR which was about 4-5 hours and I had pumped about half of the water out of the tank to make arranging easier and to also have tank water to leave my corals in while I arranged the rocks. I am running an Ecotech Marine mp40w on lagoon mode full speed so it ranges from 1500gph to about 3500gph plus 1100gph from return pump out of sump. So total is 2600-4700gph flow rate.

The rest of the fish are doing fine. I have a sailfin tang, maroon clown, sand sifter goby, 2 anthias, 2 brown tangs, 3 spotted cardinal, foxface, 2 skunk shrimp, and 1 coral banded shrimp. I am also running a wide variety of soft coral and all of it seems to be incredibly happy.

I tested for NO2, NO3, Ammonia, PO4, PH, Salinty. I did not test my oxygen though which I didn't really think about doing because the rest of the fish are breathing normally. I should probably go ahead and test for that as well.

NO2 - 0ppm
NO3 - 10ppm
PO4 - .25ppm
PH - 8.1
Salinty - 1.024
Temp - between 74 and 75

 

Not sure if 4-5 hours would have done it...I have had mine off for longer...May have just been stress with recovering from Ich and the constant changes and they were weaker fish?

 

May have just been stress with recovering from Ich and the constant changes and they were weaker fish?

^^^
Agreed

 

The Hippo Tang I kind of felt that might be the problem since they don't handle any kind of stress well and are such ick magnets. I was truly hopeful for him since he was a fairly large and healthy specimen. The coral beauty though I had no problems with until the rock change. I guess the main reason it made no sense was both of them ate well during their feeding that night. I guess I was looking too much into it. :doh:

 

I believe that I found the problem this morning. Today was my first day back to work so I was up earlier than my lights turning on and I noticed that the temp in my tank was really cold. It appears that my heater is on the fritz and wasn't turning on like it should. I was sitting at 71F this morning so that explains a bunch.

 

if the heater is on the fritz and went solid on for a while, then that would cause the problems you saw. the larger critters gasping. a sudden drop in temp tend to affect the corals more than the fish. low temps tend to not bother fish much. increase in temps, cause all kinds of problems. mainly an increase the bacterial activity resulting in significant loss of O2 in the system. this is why the bigger organisms would be affected.

G~

 

Yep, I'd say you found it. A few fish with ich (especially the tang), a couple days of radical temp swings, stress from environmental change, and maybe stirring up the SB... could be just enough to do them in maybe I'm wrong, either way though, sorry for your loss. That sucks, and such cool fish too

 

Wow....I would never have thought of that but it makes total sense. I am just monitoring the rest of my fish to see how they are doing. Right now I think my two brown tangs are really stressed because they are not eating today. Hopefully this will pass soon enough.

 

You're going to need to QT all your fish now, and leave the DT fish-free for up to 8 weeks to guarantee the Ich parasite completes it's cycle. Hopefully everything works out ok!

 

You're going to need to QT all your fish now, and leave the DT fish-free for up to 8 weeks to guarantee the Ich parasite completes it's cycle. Hopefully everything works out ok!

I'll respectfully disagree with this statement. Ich is caused by stress and is in the systems the same way the common cold is in the air. Stress weakens the immune systems of both fish and people making more susceptible to the "bugs" in the environment. Remove the stress and they can fight off the ich on their own in most cases. Catching fish adds stress. Putting into a new environment (QT) causes stress. The QT is likely smaller than the DT so adds to crowding, which causes stress. Most QT's have little to no hiding spots, which adds stress. Treating with chemicals can cause stress as well as kill ich.

It is true that an empty tank will kill off a large portion of the ich in the tank, but it won't eliminate it. If fish are stressed and their immune system is weakened, it will come back. Treating the tank for ich is akin to treating a symptom of the cold, but it doesn't fix the problem, which is the stress. That is what needs to be eliminated. In this case, the bad heater was a source of stress and who knows how long that was going on.

 

mrplum, I'd agree that fish can handle a variety of temperatures. I watched a study where they brought a tank down to 56 degrees (fresh water) and the fish just slowed down...that would probably kill marine fish, but the fish in the study were from a part of africa where water temps are usually around 75-77 degrees. I think the issue is when you have swings in temp. The heater was on the fritz where it was kicking on and off irregularly, which led to temp swings, which will add stress to everyone. Being from Michigan, you can relate with the sudden temp changes we get sometimes in the Midwest. That seems to be when people get sick...not a coincidence.

 

I spent a few hours doing some more research on ich last night, trying to find articles written after 2005 with research from after 2005 and couldn't find a lot. What I did find was interesting and I'll need to change my stance a little, depending no the situation. Here is what I surmised by reading a bunch of different articles.

In normal conditions, fish will have a natural immunity to fighting off ich, along with many other parasites, so prevention is the best medicine. The immunity comes from the mucous that won't allow the parasite to reach the skin. Tangs have a thinner mucous lining so are more susceptible in our tanks. In the wild they swim a lot more so rely on movement to avoid ich. Stress lowers their immune system, which thins the mucous allowing the parasite to enter.
Here is where there is still a lot of debate. At the first signs of ich, don't panic. Recognize that something is wrong and fixing the problem immediately will reduce the stress allowing for the fish to fight the parasite on its own, which is possible, and preferred in most cases. In the home aquarium, ich, once introduced, will survive for between 10-11 months in most cases, though you'll never see it unless stress triggers a bloom. After this time, it will die out as the inhabitants create thei own immunity and the effectiveness of the parasite lessens.
A massive outbreak, or bloom, is a different story. In this case, the stressors are too much to over come and treatment is necessary, as described by chogendoorn. Most research said it will go through a complete cycle and die out in the DT tank without a host in about 60 days, but some studies have seen it last for 72 days. This is for the display tank. The treatment of the fish in the QT is different because it has fish in it. The different treatment methods will only affect the specific stages of ich they target so constant water changes and meticulous attention to detail are required for treatement to be successful. Otherwise, the treatment may be worse than the ich. One article made the analogy of chemotherapy maybe killing the patient faster than the cancer may have.

After reading all of this, there is a reason you only get healthy fish, don't overcrowd, and maintain high quality water parameters. Prevention really is the best medicine.

 

+1
Well researched and well articulated
Chris

I spent a few hours doing some more research on ich last night, trying to find articles written after 2005 with research from after 2005 and couldn't find a lot. What I did find was interesting and I'll need to change my stance a little, depending no the situation. Here is what I surmised by reading a bunch of different articles.

In normal conditions, fish will have a natural immunity to fighting off ich, along with many other parasites, so prevention is the best medicine. The immunity comes from the mucous that won't allow the parasite to reach the skin. Tangs have a thinner mucous lining so are more susceptible in our tanks. In the wild they swim a lot more so rely on movement to avoid ich. Stress lowers their immune system, which thins the mucous allowing the parasite to enter.
Here is where there is still a lot of debate. At the first signs of ich, don't panic. Recognize that something is wrong and fixing the problem immediately will reduce the stress allowing for the fish to fight the parasite on its own, which is possible, and preferred in most cases. In the home aquarium, ich, once introduced, will survive for between 10-11 months in most cases, though you'll never see it unless stress triggers a bloom. After this time, it will die out as the inhabitants create thei own immunity and the effectiveness of the parasite lessens.
A massive outbreak, or bloom, is a different story. In this case, the stressors are too much to over come and treatment is necessary, as described by chogendoorn. Most research said it will go through a complete cycle and die out in the DT tank without a host in about 60 days, but some studies have seen it last for 72 days. This is for the display tank. The treatment of the fish in the QT is different because it has fish in it. The different treatment methods will only affect the specific stages of ich they target so constant water changes and meticulous attention to detail are required for treatement to be successful. Otherwise, the treatment may be worse than the ich. One article made the analogy of chemotherapy maybe killing the patient faster than the cancer may have.

After reading all of this, there is a reason you only get healthy fish, don't overcrowd, and maintain high quality water parameters. Prevention really is the best medicine.

 

then there is the problem of not reintroducing the parasite through future purchases. this does not only include fish. any kind of material brought in from another system needs to be quarantined for the lets say 72 days. this includes all water, coral, inverts, fish. everything. the parasite has multiple stages each able to be introduced by adding anything to the tank. quarantine tanks are a great idea if you are able to have a quarantine tank that is at least the same size as your display, if not then you are just introducing more stress to the organism. this is why quarantining is generally not very applicable to anything but very large systems. if running a QT then every time you add a critter to the QT the 72 days start over.

in other words it is extremely difficult to keep the parasite out of our systems. just think of the amount of fish that go through the water column at your LFS. it does not take a math wizard to see that the chances their systems having ich in them is quite large. it is best to get the system consistent so that the critters are not stressed. there is a reason why ich is mainly a beginner disease. it takes a lot of experience to keep a water column consistent. the first year of keeping a system has a steep learning curve for the aquarist.

G~

 

Geoff,

That is normally what I have heard when it comes to this horrible disease. These fish actually started showing ich after I received them from a friend of mine who was converting back to fresh water. They underwent enormous stress between his tank dismantle and being added to my tank and then the collapse and rock rebuild etc etc etc. I think I will start watching my water even closer now to see if I can maintain near perfect water quality and beat this problem. The longer I am in the reef scene the more I realize that I have a lot to learn and I am still quite novice at this hobby. Thank you everyone for all of the posts and leading me on this journey. I will have to find the area to post pics of my tank soon since I am coming to this site more regularly and learning so much.

 

a lot of this hobby is just experience and learning your particular system. once you get the eye, you can tell when things are amiss, but it takes a few years to get to this point.

here is the link to the TRT gallery for posting pics.

glad to have you here.

G~