[JennM]

Ice - to steer this thread back on topic and make it constructive -- How open minded is the new GM? Are they likely to stick with what's tried and true, or are they willing to take it up a notch?

Unfortunately some store owners' education stops when they open their doors and many are stuck in a time warp of UGF, CC substrate, and such. You may have to present your ideas in a way that won't seem like you're trying to change the world - but if you can pinpoint some slow movers in your particular store, then come up with some good stuff to replace it with - if that flies, you'll be more likely to keep that foot in the door with other products.

Rome wasn't built in a day - it will be a gradual thing to break the store managers of old habits Educate them on what's new, and what's better, and slowly move towards higher end stuff.

It can be done though

Good luck!

Jenn

 

[reefermike1]

i bought the "master test kit" by api when i first got into this hobby, then bought the alk, and calcium api kits. then one day i bought a salifert kh kit and found that the salifert read 9dkh, when the api was reading 7... so i got a calcium kit and found that my calcium was over 500 when the api kit was reading low 400s, then got a salifert ph kit and found my ph low at 8.2, when api was reading around 8.6. havent used the api kits since, been in the closet collecting dust, and im wishing i should have bought salifert in the first place!! as for skimmers a venturi skimmer cant compare with a needlewheel, cant even cmoe close!!

 

[Kenny Graham]

:biga: Go easy on the additives.. :firecracker:

 

[JennM]

One other thing I forgot to mention... depending on how much floor space your store offers for tanks. REEF READY. By all means have tanks larger than 55 that are "standard" but it makes me crazy when stores push a standard tank and a Fluval for a saltwater tank... and we've all seen folks here get sold inappropriate equipment.

Have a 75 or larger, reef ready with a sump. Even if it's a wet/dry (it's hard to get plain sumps... but bioballs can be removed. If I had $1 for everyone that's bought a standard tank and a Fluval or two someplace... (I don't carry Fluvals either...)

If nothing else, the presence of a reef-ready tank in the store will enable you to *show* people the difference and help them make an informed decision.

Jenn

 

[icebear]

The main complaint I have about AP tests is the basic bundled test kit that most people make the mistake of buying - the one that does pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate.

i think thats the one i had, but the FW kit.... i thought it had an exp date printed on the bottles, but i may have it mixed with something else. but yeah, at any rate, it started to have really strange results quite shortly after buying it. and i stored it away properly, cool, dry place, no direct sun or fluxing temps and caps replaced tight....

 

[icebear]

Ice - to steer this thread back on topic and make it constructive -- How open minded is the new GM? Are they likely to stick with what's tried and true, or are they willing to take it up a notch?

i'm not aware that he knows much about fish...i mean, if he does, i have not heard about it (not to insult the guy unknowingly). It dosen't seem to be his area of interest... i'm hoping to maybe fill the void, or at least make sure my favorite area isn't forgotten or plowed under. Between me and another girl (who is really into cichlids) we've been trying to get the fish department dusted off a bit and polished up, its been a while since anyone has really taken a serious interest in it.

 

[JennM]

Ah - full-line pet store. Often aquatics is the redheaded stepchild... higher profits in dog sweaters and cat toys...

I hope you and your associate do good things for your department

Jenn

 

[Bubbashrimp]

5 years for a shelf life. I would use that product up before 5 years. Why pay the money for extended time if you do not need it? 0n average I probably blow through a "typical" test in about a year.

 

[tdwyatt]

Ah - full-line pet store. Often aquatics is the redheaded stepchild... higher profits in dog sweaters and cat toys...

I thought that was what you used the bioballs for.

 

[Doug1]

pH test kits and Swing arm hydrometers, 2 of the most sold least accurate hoaxes foisted on the public

 

[JennM]

5 years for a shelf life. I would use that product up before 5 years. Why pay the money for extended time if you do not need it? 0n average I probably blow through a "typical" test in about a year.

Wouldn't you rather use it up *before* it expired, rather than find it had expired before you finished it.

If it's got a five year shelf life and you use it in a year, you're laughing.

If it's got an 8 month shelf life but it takes you a year to use it up, you would have to replace it before it's used up.

That's my point.

Jenn

 

[JennM]

I thought that was what you used the bioballs for.

LOL yeah they make great cat toys!

Bioballs do have applications we use them on our FW systems and on our SW fish only (no LR) sell system.

Jenn

 

[icebear]

Yes, we have LOTS and LOTS of sweaters for dogs.... kinda silly to wear a sweater over a fur coat, but its all the rage on planet woof.....LOL

it is the unfortunate part of a full line pet store, but we do seem to have at least one person who is great in each section, and in this location, we are lucky to have fellow employees who actually do care about the 'livestock' we have. this isn't the case by far in most places.

 

[tdwyatt]

5 years for a shelf life. I would use that product up before 5 years. Why pay the money for extended time if you do not need it? 0n average I probably blow through a "typical" test in about a year.

For most of the more expensive kits you're paying for the accuracy and repeatability of the test kit. I know thqat Habib (at Salifert) takes great pride in the reliability and accuracy of their products at a reasonable price.

Expiration in not an issue if in reasonable expiry when you start using it, but if short-dated, it IS an issue for how long it sits in the mnufacturer's inventory before it is ordered by a wholesaler/distributor, then sits in THEIR warehouse before it is bought by a regional distributor/chain store warehouse, and then sits in THEIR warehouse before it is bought by a LFS/Chain outlet, and then sits on the shelf in the final retail setting before Joe Reefcoralist buys that particular testkit to start the consumption process... 8 months is not an unusual amount of time for this process to transpire. I have seen items come into shops and be out of date when they arrive; items with short expiry dates (or no dates ) just create work for the retail shop that is unnecessary as OOD returns, or end up creating losses when they cannot be returned for credit to the manufacturers. These are INTENDED to be reactive substances, that is their purpose; folks are just fooling themselves if they think that no date on the box means that they do not go out of date.

Icebear: "Planet Woof" ????

 

[Bubbashrimp]

You said "Wouldn't you rather use it up *before* it expired, rather than find it had expired before you finished it.

If it's got a five year shelf life and you use it in a year, you're laughing.

If it's got an 8 month shelf life but it takes you a year to use it up, you would have to replace it before it's used up.

That's my point."

I am not near my aquarium so I do not know how long the tests are actually valid for. I understand your point and it is a good one, however, I said "typically" so that is more or less. Whatever it is, I would reather be a couple of months off instead of 4 years and a couple of months(understanding that the data points at the end of the tests life are a bit squed).

What I really what to do is move toward digital. Right now the technology has not reached the marine aquarium world the way I want it to but hopefully it is coming. I know that there are individual testers that are digital, but I would like one that does all the testing at once i.e. one probe with continuous monitering. Futhermore, I would like it to be able to make plots in excel, communicate to you while away from home, and test for things more closer to what one might find in a marine aquarium. I do not know if these are possible though. The only thing that I found able to do this is a bit bulky. Check it out if you like, but I believe it is around $3000. This is my dream and I hope pinpoint, or who ever, start to manufacture something like this. And as a store owner maybe you could direct me to a place that already makes something like this.

http://www.eurekaenvironmental.com/manta/overview.htm

on another note:

Are you going to still discourage the use of stress coat(or the other product equivalent)? I hope not. Although, it does sound like there is some overusage in your part of the country, it is still a good product when use right.

 

[Bubbashrimp]

Yeh habib hangs out at RC

how long it has been sitting on the shelfs is important as well

 

[JennM]

on another note:

Are you going to still discourage the use of stress coat(or the other product equivalent)? I hope not. Although, it does sound like there is some overusage in your part of the country, it is still a good product when use right.

Yes. Yes I most certainly will, and I don't carry that product, and I likely never will. I absolutely am going to discourage the use of Stress Coat, or any OTHER product that people throw blindly into their tanks without knowing why they are using it.

Just like some people dose iodine "just because" and they don't test for it - and tanks can become poisoned if there's too much. More is not better.

Don't dose it if you don't need it, and in the case of supplements, don't dose it if you aren't testing for it.

Blindly adding this or that, often and to excess, can not only become toxic, it can throw off the tank's ionic balance and lead to other problems, not limited to, but including nuisance algae, cyanobacter, strange skimmer behavior (try some polymers and watch your skimmer go ape).

Most trace elements are replenished with regular water changes and the use of a good quality salt mix. *Some* tanks with particularly heavy soft coral loads and/or crustacean loads *may* benefit from iodide or iodine, but only if the user is testing. Calcium may become depleted if there's an abudance of reef-building corals... every tank is different so each hobbyist's needs will be different.

So yes, I'm vehimently opposed to blindly dosing whatever, just because somebody said so, or because Dr. So-and-So said so (is Dr. So-and-So a shareholder in the company?).

I've seen countless articles in hobby magazines over the years - "articles" that sing the praises of this widget or that widget - you read the fine print at the bottom and the author is the inventor or marketer of said widget - the "articles" are just infomercials. Not every product endorsement is a paid one, but plenty are.

Examine each product on its own merit - its performance as well as its price, and its appropriateness to your situation.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore - you love Stress Coat and that's your thing... I don't, and that's my thing.

Jenn

 

[JennM]

Yes, we have LOTS and LOTS of sweaters for dogs.... kinda silly to wear a sweater over a fur coat, but its all the rage on planet woof.....LOL

it is the unfortunate part of a full line pet store, but we do seem to have at least one person who is great in each section, and in this location, we are lucky to have fellow employees who actually do care about the 'livestock' we have. this isn't the case by far in most places.

Well a *smart* manager will have people who love their department and the livestock they cater to. That's just good business. Why sell shoes if you hate feet?! :lol:

And there's nothing wrong with dog sweaters. I don't have a full line store but I can tell you that there is a ton of money in frou-frou stuff like that. It boggles my mind what people will spend on their pets - many 4-legged furbabies are treated better than folks' own human family.

The downside in many a full-line store (the big boxes in particular) is that the aquatics department really is the "redheaded stepchild"... budgets are spent on higher profit stuff in other departments that move better, and in some instances, aquatics is an "afterthought" - departments aren't even expected to make a profit - they are simply there as a convenience - you might buy a goldfish or a betta while you are there buying your Greenies for your dog, or a bag of litter for your cat.

Hence the often poor reputation for aquatics departments in full-line stores. It's often not the staff's fault - most people who choose this type of work do it for the love of what they do, not the beaucoup dollars they'll make in it! (cough!)... and in the case of franchises and chains, often the types of products carried is decided by the corporate suits, who are administrators, not hobbyists. There's more net profit in a Sea Clone than in an Aqua C, plus they are mass-produced and widely distributed so it's much easier to keep a chain of stores stocked with 'Clones than AquaC or whatever. That's just business.

Jenn

 

[Doug1]

Heather, i used to spend alot of time at a full service Pet Store, SW fish and Corals were considered bait, just a small percentage of the sales. Once the store manager started hanging out here and getting involved with the local club, he started doing special orders for cost + 10-20% if we would wait for normal delivery schedules, same with special order coral or fish, discounted, prepaid and what you get is what you get. After yolu factor in shipping thru online vendors it was often close enough, that it made it economically feasible to support local.
It's an option to consider, since you won't be able to stock eveything.
The sad thing is if you choose to carry a slightly more expensive skimmer or whatever and not the junk, a certain percentage will get junk elsewhere and then try to get you to make it work once they find out you know a little about SW

 

[Bubbashrimp]

I would add Stress Coat to mine/your list. I am friends with a reef store owner who is realistic and ethical. So there is a way to sell this product with out being pushy(overdosage) or irrationally(unfounded predjudice) against it. I also know times might be hard with a $6000-$16,000/ month rent and one might have to get into other things for supplementary income(dog clothes) and if every dollar counts I would add this to your list. I also realize it is hard to be open to all things as a store owner once established, like another person here suggested. Dr. Wood seems to be a very ethical person with only education and research in the front of his mind. I will provide a link if you would like it to his web page were he diseminates this information to the public.