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9K views 82 replies 20 participants last post by  leveldrummer 
Icebear, in my experience as a retailer... Kent and Seachem are easy to get via distributors and are quality products.

I prefer Current USA to Coralife - both easy to get, but Current has better customer service.

I carried Salifert tests but nobody bought them... lots of people talk the talk but few walk the walk. Having said that I carry Seachem tests and you will NEVER find an AP test kit in this store. Red Sea tests are good too - and have a copper test from Red Sea if you sell Cupramine. The Red Sea test works with Curpamine but the Seachem test is a pain in the rear.

No Sea Clones either OR Prizms - spend a few more dollars at cost and go to a bit more trouble and get AquaC or CPR - PM me if you need distributor info because they don't come from your main line distributor. Neither does Salifert but there's a couple of places you can get them.

Carrying every wattage/colour temp etc., of lamps is impractical for most stores. Depending on your sales volume, a couple of each of the 65 and 96 watts move well. Metal Halides may be "order only" because it's expensive inventory to have on the shelf, and if you have 10,000K the customer wants 20,000K or if you have 175 Watt they want 250, etc and it's hard to keep some of everything on the shelf without going broke.

Bulkheads, plumbing kits, and other PVC parts are good to have on hand. Black tubing - Lee's makes good stuff readily available through most distributors.

See if you can't replace the Wardley and API stuff with comparable Kent and Seachem... better products, more "high end". I like Omega Sea for flake/pellet foods, there are some other good ones too.

San Fran, Piscine Energetics, and Ocean Nutrition (and Hikari) are good for frozen.

Salt: Kent, IO, Reef Crystals, Oceanic. I haven't found that Seachem moves at all, and Red Sea salt is awful, IMO - so is Coralife salt. You'll move way more IO than any other, but Kent's up there for me - but I prefer it, so I push it more.

The issue with carrying all the big-dollar, high-end stuff is that unless you're in an affluent area, you won't move as much of that as the middle of the road stuff. Don't carry the junk - it's not worth it. The downside is that if you have a decent HOB skimmer for $10 more than the crappy one your competitor sells, more than half the people will buy the POS from down the road and a few months later they might buy the good one from you. It's a catch 22 sometimes, but IMO you're better off carrying the better stuff in the first place, then you aren't as likely to find the name of your store being smeared online because the "stupid LFS" sold them crap ;)

I am sure I could go on and on about what stuff moves well, what's good to keep - but that's something to chew on for now ;)

Jenn
 
Just stumbled on the thread is all :)

There's no "exact science" to what to stock. Many people ask what I use and recommend so I move most of the stuff that I .... use and recommend.

The store I used to work at pushed a lot of different stuff than I do, and I started carrying their big movers when I first opened but found that that stuff didn't move as well.

For some unknown reason, in this area anyway, stores push "Stress Coat" like it was going out of style. It just gunks up the water. I'm sure it's good if you have an injured fish etc., (I carry Seachem's compatible product and it's better - no aloe, no scum)... but I break a lot of people of that habit - it's a waste of money, IMO.

The Melafix and stuff is pretty useless also IMO. I've got a couple of FW customers that use it, so I have it for them, but it's never on my "recommended" list. I also try to suggest real remedies for stuff like cyano instead of chemical fixes - fix the source of the problem, not just the symptom.

I do have a lot of stuff that simply doesn't move. When it does finally move, I usually try to replace it with something that does. A store only has so much shelf space - no sense filling it with "dust collectors" and when I got into selling FW fish a few years ago I had to re-learn a lot.

It's not an exact science. You have X, they want Y. You get Y, they want Z.

OH and I don't carry Power Sweeps either ;) But Maxijets and Hydor Flos work a lot better.

People buy junk because it's there. If it's not there, they'll buy the good stuff (unless junk is cheap down the road...) Retail is a frustrating business to say the least at times.

Poly filters, replacement cartridges, carbon, media bags, salt, frozen food, bulk filter pads, scraper blades and such move well and often. Whatever filters you sell the most of, keep enough replacement media on hand at all times because that moves well. If your distributor has a special, stock up.

Go to trade shows if/when you can - keep up with the "latest things" even if they're junk - if you've had the chance to see them firsthand and play with them, you will know what people will be looking for and what to stock - or what to dissuade them from buying if it's not good. You can also give manufacturers feedback on their products.

Books. Lots and lots of books. When a new customer comes in looking to purchase a tank setup - that's where I bring them first. If they look at the price on the back of a book and wrinkle their nose, I know immediately if they are serious about a new hobby or not. I can't believe some people will drop hundreds or even thousands on a setup, without a $35 "owner's manual". Said books are also a good thing to have for yourself to look things up when you get hit with a question you don't know the answer to ;)

Jenn
 
Ice, do you work for an independent or a chain or franchise?

Jenn
 
I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY SOME OF YOU THINK THAT IT IS NESSESARY TO "PRODUCT BASH".
Bubbashrimp, respectfully, I do not know why you are so opposed to other people having an opinion that differs from yours.

You stated your opinions, you weren't flamed, however some of us have differening opinions. That's why it's a *discussion forum*.

If you like Stress Coat, use it to your heart's content. In MY OPINION, it is not necessary but if it makes you feel better, it will likely do no harm except to inhibit gas exchange because of its oily nature for a little while.

There's one heck of a difference between schlepping cephlopods around on a boat, and taking your guppies or clownfishes home in a plastic bag with clean water and oxygen in it, and the scientist could easily have plugged whatever OTHER product was GIVEN to him for a plug.

I don't like Stress Coat, and I stated the reasons why. I don't sell it and I don't even "push" the similar Seachem product although I do carry it for folks such as yourself who just feel a compulsion to use it, and the *occasional* individual who has an injured fish that could benefit from it.

Your opinion is equally as valid as mine, so please don't bash me for having an opinion, and for chiming in my experience as a LFS owner, because the original poster asked what types of things to carry. Since I'm in the business, I feel like I'm qualified to answer.

Respectfully, of course.

Jenn
 
One other thing, Bubbashrimp - I'm not singling you out or flaming you, but I *am* going to challenge your statement that AP tests are good.

What is your statement based on? That's *all* I would like to know.

For what it's worth, my contention (and Tom's, and others here) that the test kits are NOT good, is personal experience.

I used an AP test kit. One day a tank I'd been maintaining for a client for 2 years started having weird readings. I double checked the results using a different brand of kit and found normal readings. Used a third test kit, third brand and the results were consistent with the second test. Conclusion: the AP test kit was bad.

This same sort of experience has been repeated, dozens if not hundreds of times when hobbyists come to this and other boards with a similar experience. Do a search on this board for Aquarium Pharm or similar and I'm quite confident you will find all kinds of threads demonstrating how poor the quality of these tests are.

I know you don't know me, so just FYI I'm going to let you know, when I make a statement like I have, it's based on my own personal experience, and the experiences of my clients. I don't repeat and regurgitate information that I've heard or read somewhere (or if I do, I'll state that), my opinions are all based on having been there, done that.

I don't claim to have all the answers, nor do I claim to be "right" - but I do give firsthand information. See, I've been in the hobby for a very long time, and in the business a respectable amount of time. I'll never ever be an expert... but I have learned a thing or two, and I learn every day.

I come here to learn, and to help other people - and in this thread, Ice was asking about what sorts of things to have in her store. I was simply offering up what sells well for me, what's unnecessary and what she'd likely benefit from carrying.

Again - respectfully,

Jenn
 
Bubbashrimp, I think you are taking generalizations, personally. I have nothing against you but for whatever reason, you are making this personal, and that's unfortunate.

OK - truth be told... I KNOW why Stress Coat, AP tests and other AP products sell like hotcakes and are carried by most mainstream stores.

They are cheap.

Now that that secret is out of the bag... let's carry on some meaningful discussion.

The AP test is the LEAST expensive test kit on the market, bar none. THAT is why so many carry it, and that is why so many buy it.

Think about it - you're standing in my store eyeballing the $25 API test, and the $46 Seachem one, and several Salifert tests ranging from $12-20 apiece. What is the typical consumer going to buy? The *cheapest*.

This wouldn't be a problem if the product was as accurate as the more expensive one - but it's simply not. As I said - do a search on this forum, or any other, and you will find all kinds of reports of AP tests giving faulty readings. And there are plenty of boards that neither my ilk, nor myself post on - so you'll get some independent corroboration on that.

And while you are shouting at me that not everyone gets their inhabitants from a pet store, what difference does that make? Stress Coat contains aloe and thus is oily, whether you buy your livestock at a LFS, online or at the supermarket lobster tank OR if you collect your own at the beach.

If Dr. Wood had been given another product to use by another manufacturer, we'd be here arguing the praises of Seachem Stress Guard (which does not have aloe, btw...).

All I am saying is that I have personally SEEN and SERVED people who blindly buy products that are sold to them. When somebody comes in and asks me for Stress Coat, I ask them why they need it. They always say the same thing, "I don't know, XXX store told me I needed it."

So I ask if they have a fish with an injury or stress, they say no - I ask again what the Stress Coat is wanted for.

I have a problem with selling things to people, if they don't need them.

Jenn
 
I come here to learn too, I believe that this place is a free exchange of ideas.

Allright, I accept your challenge. While most peoples problems are with the color matching i use the calcium test that does not rely upon color(except the changing of the end color). All that being said I have matched my API against Red SEA and have found similar results. If you have a problem with Red Sea as well I would be extremely interested. How long have your tests been sitting around? API warns that the shelf life of these products is limited. I agree that salifert is one of the better products, but it is not the best in terms of acctual tests one can do but in terms of the products one would buy from an aquarium store.
AP makes a calcium test? I had to look that one up in my vendor's catalog to be sure... yep, retails about $10. Wonder why they can make it so cheap compared to Seachem's Titration test that retails for about $40?

I've compared Red Sea to Seachem - while Red Sea isn't as precise, I found results consistent with Seachem - however you can be more exact with Seachem.

OH yeah - I know what the difference is - Seachem's tests have a shelf life of about 5 YEARS. I believe API is about 8 months, but then they don't put expiration dates on their kits (or at least they never used to...)... Red Sea does put expiration dates.

The main complaint I have about AP tests is the basic bundled test kit that most people make the mistake of buying - the one that does pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate. You will almost NEVER get a negative reading for Ammonia, and one day you'll start getting wacky readings for Nitrite or Nitrate off the scale, when that's simply not what's going on.

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweet price is forgotten.

Jenn
 
Ice - to steer this thread back on topic and make it constructive -- How open minded is the new GM? Are they likely to stick with what's tried and true, or are they willing to take it up a notch?

Unfortunately some store owners' education stops when they open their doors and many are stuck in a time warp of UGF, CC substrate, and such. You may have to present your ideas in a way that won't seem like you're trying to change the world - but if you can pinpoint some slow movers in your particular store, then come up with some good stuff to replace it with - if that flies, you'll be more likely to keep that foot in the door with other products.

Rome wasn't built in a day - it will be a gradual thing to break the store managers of old habits :) Educate them on what's new, and what's better, and slowly move towards higher end stuff.

It can be done though :)

Good luck!

Jenn
 
One other thing I forgot to mention... depending on how much floor space your store offers for tanks. REEF READY. By all means have tanks larger than 55 that are "standard" but it makes me crazy when stores push a standard tank and a Fluval for a saltwater tank... and we've all seen folks here get sold inappropriate equipment.

Have a 75 or larger, reef ready with a sump. Even if it's a wet/dry (it's hard to get plain sumps... but bioballs can be removed. If I had $1 for everyone that's bought a standard tank and a Fluval or two someplace... (I don't carry Fluvals either...)

If nothing else, the presence of a reef-ready tank in the store will enable you to *show* people the difference and help them make an informed decision.

Jenn
 
Ah - full-line pet store. Often aquatics is the redheaded stepchild... higher profits in dog sweaters and cat toys...

I hope you and your associate do good things for your department :)

Jenn
 
5 years for a shelf life. I would use that product up before 5 years. Why pay the money for extended time if you do not need it? 0n average I probably blow through a "typical" test in about a year.
Wouldn't you rather use it up *before* it expired, rather than find it had expired before you finished it.

If it's got a five year shelf life and you use it in a year, you're laughing.

If it's got an 8 month shelf life but it takes you a year to use it up, you would have to replace it before it's used up.

That's my point.

Jenn
 
I thought that was what you used the bioballs for.

:rolleyes:
LOL yeah they make great cat toys!

Bioballs do have applications we use them on our FW systems and on our SW fish only (no LR) sell system.

Jenn
 
on another note:

Are you going to still discourage the use of stress coat(or the other product equivalent)? I hope not. Although, it does sound like there is some overusage in your part of the country, it is still a good product when use right.
Yes. Yes I most certainly will, and I don't carry that product, and I likely never will. I absolutely am going to discourage the use of Stress Coat, or any OTHER product that people throw blindly into their tanks without knowing why they are using it.

Just like some people dose iodine "just because" and they don't test for it - and tanks can become poisoned if there's too much. More is not better.

Don't dose it if you don't need it, and in the case of supplements, don't dose it if you aren't testing for it.

Blindly adding this or that, often and to excess, can not only become toxic, it can throw off the tank's ionic balance and lead to other problems, not limited to, but including nuisance algae, cyanobacter, strange skimmer behavior (try some polymers and watch your skimmer go ape).

Most trace elements are replenished with regular water changes and the use of a good quality salt mix. *Some* tanks with particularly heavy soft coral loads and/or crustacean loads *may* benefit from iodide or iodine, but only if the user is testing. Calcium may become depleted if there's an abudance of reef-building corals... every tank is different so each hobbyist's needs will be different.

So yes, I'm vehimently opposed to blindly dosing whatever, just because somebody said so, or because Dr. So-and-So said so (is Dr. So-and-So a shareholder in the company?).

I've seen countless articles in hobby magazines over the years - "articles" that sing the praises of this widget or that widget - you read the fine print at the bottom and the author is the inventor or marketer of said widget - the "articles" are just infomercials. Not every product endorsement is a paid one, but plenty are.

Examine each product on its own merit - its performance as well as its price, and its appropriateness to your situation.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore - you love Stress Coat and that's your thing... I don't, and that's my thing.

Jenn
 
Yes, we have LOTS and LOTS of sweaters for dogs.... kinda silly to wear a sweater over a fur coat, but its all the rage on planet woof.....LOL

it is the unfortunate part of a full line pet store, but we do seem to have at least one person who is great in each section, and in this location, we are lucky to have fellow employees who actually do care about the 'livestock' we have. this isn't the case by far in most places.
Well a *smart* manager will have people who love their department and the livestock they cater to. That's just good business. Why sell shoes if you hate feet?! :lol:

And there's nothing wrong with dog sweaters. I don't have a full line store but I can tell you that there is a ton of money in frou-frou stuff like that. It boggles my mind what people will spend on their pets - many 4-legged furbabies are treated better than folks' own human family.

The downside in many a full-line store (the big boxes in particular) is that the aquatics department really is the "redheaded stepchild"... budgets are spent on higher profit stuff in other departments that move better, and in some instances, aquatics is an "afterthought" - departments aren't even expected to make a profit - they are simply there as a convenience - you might buy a goldfish or a betta while you are there buying your Greenies for your dog, or a bag of litter for your cat.

Hence the often poor reputation for aquatics departments in full-line stores. It's often not the staff's fault - most people who choose this type of work do it for the love of what they do, not the beaucoup dollars they'll make in it! (cough!)... and in the case of franchises and chains, often the types of products carried is decided by the corporate suits, who are administrators, not hobbyists. There's more net profit in a Sea Clone than in an Aqua C, plus they are mass-produced and widely distributed so it's much easier to keep a chain of stores stocked with 'Clones than AquaC or whatever. That's just business.

Jenn
 
Well I *am* a reef store owner who is responsible and ethical. If you want to get into a discussion about ethics and responsibilities, I invite you to start a new thread and share what you know about cyanide fishing... this isn't the thread for that debate.

Please understand - there are many ways to accomplish things in this hobby, I'm not asserting that I am right and everyone else is wrong - I am simply reiterating my opinion, which you seem to want to argue with and counter, just because.

I have no quarrel with you, or with API - I don't endorse their products, I don't carry them. Rather, I carry products which I consider to be of higher quality and better value. Nothing more, nothing less. Locals who want to buy API, do so, elsewhere. I'm not going to turn this thread into a plug thread either - I simply chimed in because Heather wanted some input on good products to carry and she had already indicated that the store she works in carries API. I simply offered up some other types and brands of products and for whatever reason you took exception to that and have been all over me like white on rice, ever since. You haven't found fault in others' suggestions - so why the personal beef? Prior to this thread, I don't even think we've exchanged ideas before on this forum.

I have a thick skin so I'm not taking offence to any of this, I just wonder why you're so adament...

And I apologize Heather, for deviating once again from the thread topic.

Jenn
 
I dont understand why there is so much argument here either.

Nothing personal intended at all......but point blank- API sucks, and red sea berlin airlift skimmers suck. And neither should ever be recommended to anyone who wants to do well in this hobby.

Anyone who has any experience in this hobby, with any tests or equipment other than them knows both of those things firsthand as FACT.
Heh well you're a little more blunt than I am but I won't disagree with that statement. However, Red Sea does have some decent higher-end products - wave timers, ozone generators and CO2 systems for freshwater. I wouldn't paint their whole product line with one brush, but I wouldn't endorse their whole product line either. I don't carry any of their supplements. I stick with Kent and Seachem - Kent *was* a local company for us before they were gobbled up by Central Garden and Pet, and Seachem is still a local company. Mind you, I used their products as a hobbyist many many years ago when I was a noob back in Canada, so it's not just the "local factor" - I believe in their products.

API - well - the only product of theirs I carry is freshwater aquarium salt - too many people recognize the cartoon fish on the "milk carton" container.. I sell about 2 of those every 6 months. I also carry Seachem's version but it's likely very similar and yes, more expensive.

I've had no good experiences with Red Sea skimmers of every description. Many come to us with used setups with these and we find them difficult to dial in. I much prefer Euroreef or even Kent skimmers. I'm "currently" (pardon the pun) playing with a Current USA Fission 225 skimmer and it's pulling some nasty crap out of my smaller coral system, so thusfar it's getting a thumbsup from me.

The bottom line is, in my experience, every product line seems to have good products and not so good products. I've played and experimented with a lot of different products over the years, supplements, foods, hardware... what I carry and what I recommend is based on that, and I think that's more or less what type of feedback Heather was looking for when she started this thread, and she's had a lot of good feedback in between the peeing match :)

Heather, I hope your GM takes your suggestions and ideas to heart - it will be a good thing for your store, the others in the group of stores, your customers, and especially for the livestock :)

Jenn
 
:confused:

I guess I'll just go back to answering questions from my "old pet store" ;)

I don't know what cuttlefish mortality has to do with any of this either... and I'd BET that their mortality has everything in the world to do with the fragility of the animal itself and it's poor suitability for transport and even captive life under even the best of circumstances. I daresay that Stress Coat wasn't the key factor in the 10% that made it - but that's another post.

I've only ever seen cuttles on a stock list ONCE... And none of my "old customers" have expressed interest in keeping them. I get the odd inquiry about octupus, but that's usually from not-yet-hobbyists (they aren't hobbyists "yet") and that's what they want to start with (!!!!)... I don't carry cephlopods, and once I've steered a would-be-hobbyist to where he or she should begin their research before they obtain such a creature, that's usually where it ends. Nobody has EVER returned, having educated themselves, to buy the right equipment, set up and cycle a tank, for me to order an octo or a cuttle or whatnot for them. There are a few cuttle keepers and octo keepers "out there" - but none of my locals ever took it past the inquiry stage. Some have opted for a marine tank with more easy-care creatures, but most just abandon the effort when they realize that no matter what they want to keep, they are going to have to do 2 things - 1)Educate themselves, and 2)Spend money :)

I just don't get why Bubbashrimp chose to pick a fight in this thread, in particular against me - but I've addressed that already. Bubba, if you want to PM me, go ahead - but I am not interested in any further peeing match.

The intent of this thread was to give Heather recommendations on good products to carry, which her store was *not already carrying*.... she stated her store carries API stuff - and several others, as well as myself, suggested some other good things to have on hand, and speaking from experience in my "old pet shop"... (which is strictly aquatics, BTW - not a full line shop)... I described some of the things that move well and customers ask for. I think we've about covered that fairly well. If Bubbashrimp or anyone else wants to start a topic on cuttles, that would make for a good discussion - or even the pros and cons of Stress Coat ;)

I was going to ask Bubbashrimp *why* he/she uses Stress Coat but that's for another thread too - and I'm not that motivated to find an answer.

Heather - have you taken up any of the offerings in this thread, to your GM? I *am* interested in what he/she has to say, and if you've managed to make any headway. I do believe that when any LFS raises the standard, it's good for *everybody* - the hobbyists, the other LFS and especially the livestock.

Jenn
 
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