[Doug1]

tdwyatt i enjoyed your writings on skimmers (foam fractionators) I have to tell you though a skimmer is a skimmer and no matter how many vortexes or dodads you throw on there the basic job it does is a simple one. and in life if there is a simple solution sometimes that can be more beautiful than someone suckering you out of money for the most "technologicaly advanced" skimmer. You still use your skimmer(berlin airlift), right? Why is that? Because it is simple conveniant and does a good job.

Notice he said the skimmer was highly modified to make it work well. Look how many Skilters have been sold over the years. I doubt that 10% are still in use and most that are are prolly modded to get them to work.

I think the Remora or Urchin would be a better choice for small tanks

 

[Doug1]

Fair enough, but my berlin airlift(unmodified) works and has been working for a long time. The saying goes if it aint broke dont fix it.

Heres a different approach, why dont you tell me the reasons why your skimmer is better than mine?

If it works for you thats kewl, but having seen the RS skimmers compared to even a crude DIY Beckett style skimmer, theres no comparison.
Cost factors in, better skimmers generally cost more, but for the money the Aqua C small skimmers seemed to deliver good value for the money, they seemed to work better than the Bak Pak or most Red Sea offerings. There are several cheap skimmers out there that empirically seemed a waste of time and money, ie Skilter, Sea Clone, Prizm and those are the one that seem to get sold alot cause the price is attractive

 

[Doug1]

This doesnt need to turn into a debate on skimmed or unskimmed, there are way to many variables involved.
What Heather is looking for are products that are affordable and work into the stores budget. Stocking Big Beckett Skimmers and pumps for such at retail prices are not going to be big movers.
but carrying skimmers that are pretty much acknowledged as a joke is not doing anyone any favors either. And no I wasn't refering to the RS products, so don't take that personal .

 

[Doug1]

Thank You Jenn, I was hoping you would weigh in on the subject

 

[Doug1]

True dat, you CANT stock everything, and if you are working for someone else, esp a chain store, some bean counter is going to have the last word what you can and can't stock. Corporate couldn't care less if a product works, they are only interested in will it move and the profit margin on it.
I agree that so many people shop price,esp when they are first starting in the hobby, sadly its a steep learning curve,and an expensive one

 

[Doug1]

pH test kits and Swing arm hydrometers, 2 of the most sold least accurate hoaxes foisted on the public

 

[Doug1]

Heather, i used to spend alot of time at a full service Pet Store, SW fish and Corals were considered bait, just a small percentage of the sales. Once the store manager started hanging out here and getting involved with the local club, he started doing special orders for cost + 10-20% if we would wait for normal delivery schedules, same with special order coral or fish, discounted, prepaid and what you get is what you get. After yolu factor in shipping thru online vendors it was often close enough, that it made it economically feasible to support local.
It's an option to consider, since you won't be able to stock eveything.
The sad thing is if you choose to carry a slightly more expensive skimmer or whatever and not the junk, a certain percentage will get junk elsewhere and then try to get you to make it work once they find out you know a little about SW

 

[Doug1]

I am having a hard time figuring out where you are going with this, Cuttlefish mortality has no bearing on the discussion at hand, and quite honestly I think most people that have kept cuttlefish are probably well past asking advice on a reef forum.
If stress Coat is so critical to cuttlefish survival , fine by all means use it. Ice Bear asked for some ideas of products that perform well for the money, and several people have given their OPINION, and discussed their choice at length. Ireally don't see why the thread has to keep getting off track. there are several side issues at play here that would definatly do best in their own thread so they could be debated on their own merits, but so far I see a lot of thread clutter in Heathers question thread, lighten up

Perhaps, if people understood the mortality rate of cuttlefish they might understand a bit better. Cuttlefish on average have about a 10% survival rate, YES I SAID 10%, thats conservative. That means for every cuttlefish that you see in aquaria 9 DIED trying to be that one. If we are to keep taking from the reefs without giving back, I say take all the precautions that are nessesary. Put yourself in the animals "shoes" if you will, what obstecles did it go through just so the aquarist can see a pretty cuttle or shrimp or fish or invert. I understand JennM concern about overdosing or even overusing and I am on her side as far as that is concerned, but to bash a product that has been suggested by a researcher to help is crazy. If you read the quote carefully he does not even say to use Stress Coat over another product. I use it when something is going wrong such as one fish injuring another and stabalizing the ph etc. I do not just blindly dump it in my tank like some of her old customers did at her old pet store. Besides what is wrong with a doctor recommending a product, in this case he recommended a product similar to stress coat or stress coat, I can see when the doctor might have a conflict of interest, but that does not seem to be the case. When you go to the doctor they recommend medicine and you have a choice brand name or generic, in any case they still recommend the medicine.

I contemplated about whether or not I should even write a response to this for fear of opening this particular can of worms again. Although, I do what to clarify my position on stress coat, which is why I am writing this, I do not want to do it hurting someones feelings or have them think that I am singleing them out.

 

[Doug1]

How come one moderator is asking an opinion while another moderator is telling me to lighten up

where are you going with this?

Bubba, please don't take this as a personal attack or flame or diss or whatever, BUT you keep going back to arguing about stress coat, and diverging from the intent of the thread. Suggestions were solicited, you made your suggestion, and stated reasons why, others have made suggestions and offered rational. THe point has been takien, its a bottle of stuff that prolly retails for less than $10, it's not worth everyone getting their britches in a bunch over This I suspect is getting way more personal than iot needs to be and is becoming counter productive. Everyones entitled to add their thoughts on stuff that a good LFS should stock, but Honestly I expected more disagreement on skimmers than a bottle of Stress Coat.
You , just like every other member is entitled to offer their opinion, but given the diversity of human experience and preference don't be surprised if someone doesn't agree with you. If you like Stress Coat or Red Sea Berlin skimmers, fine, others are bound to have a different opinion and offer alternatives.
The point of Ice Bears thread is to get input on items that seem to offer the best bang for the buck, ie cost effective for the hobbiest. Honestly arguing the merits of a $10 bottle of fish treatment is a bit on the petty side. I think the point is to get input on cost effective alternatives to the bargain basement skimmers and other stuff that newbs are conned into buying and later sit in closets collecting dust.
Again with all due respect , is this a hard concept to grasp?

 

[Doug1]

I wrote a respose to your inquiry Doug1, but I decided agaist opening the can of worms again. I am going to listen to twitterbait, I believe he has my/our best interest at heart. I will happily send it to you but I do not know how.

Its no big deal, If you took this personal as an attack , I am sorry, thats not the intent. Its my job to keep threads on track and mediate issues. I have been doing it here since before we officially became TRT, so old habits die hard.
Dont take anything personal here, it's the internet