The Reef Tank banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I currently have a 125 gal tank with 3 emperor 400's running in my fish only tank. no reef tanks in hawaii. I have decided I want to move to better filtration and I was wondering what size wet/dry I should get. specifically dimensions or gallon size of the bi-ball container. I know the sump can be any size. I want to get a new in sump skimmer and uv filter for it. a refugium is out cause I can't get the algae sent here. I currently have about about 40 pounds of live rock. pain to get here, but I keep monitering craig's list for people getting rid of their tank stuff. anyway...thanks guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
wow, good article. It helped me understand sumps alot more. so my new question is in a reef tank you do not recommend a wet/dry, what do you use for filtration? I know live rock filters , but does it do the majority of the filtratin? if so how many pounds per gallon are needed for adequite filtration? I was looking at conisters, but I thought having a sump would make things easier for hiding a skimmer and uv filter. My current is hang on back prism skimmer and 3 hang on back biowheel filters. I have fish only now, but if I move back to the mainland I want to have coral. What do you suggest?
 

·
Perfeshunal Hikk
Joined
·
8,887 Posts
wow, good article. It helped me understand sumps alot more. so my new question is in a reef tank you do not recommend a wet/dry, what do you use for filtration?
You can use a wet/dry with bioballs, live rock, a combination of the two or neither. What the "live rock" does is provide a surface space for the bacteria to live that convert ammonia to nitrie and nitrite to nitrate. Whether it be on bio-balls, in a sump, in live rock, in the sand, or on the glass. It has to have a surface to live on. I use a combination of the two. Live Rock and Bio-balls (let the condemnations begin).

The other thing the rock does is provide a place for your reef to live on and nooks/crannies for the fish to swim through.

I know live rock filters , but does it do the majority of the filtratin?
The rock itself doesn't filter. It gives the bacteria for the nitrogen cycle a surface to live on.

if so how many pounds per gallon are needed for adequite filtration?
How much you need will depend on a few other things though:

How many inhabitants you have in the tank.
The bio-load of those inhabitants.
The density of the rock.
What other types of surface area you have for the bacteria to live on.

The local club president where I live at has 1/2 pound per gallon in his 90. I have seen tanks that had 3 pounds per gallon. In short? There is no set rule of thumb.

Suggestion? Get enough to aquascape your tank the way you want it to look and go with it.

I was looking at conisters, but I thought having a sump would make things easier for hiding a skimmer and uv filter.
Don't get a canister. I have never had one but I have never read anything good about them.

My current is hang on back prism skimmer and 3 hang on back biowheel filters. I have fish only now, but if I move back to the mainland I want to have coral. What do you suggest?
You can get a sump, it can be nothing more than a fish tank that will fit in your stand. You can use the HOB (hang on back) filters and simply hang them on your sump. Put the heater in the sump as well. It will get them out of the display yet still have them in the system.

As for getting rock in HI, have you considered a DIY rock? It is basically concrete, sand and seashells mixed up. You form your rocks, then you let it cure (It can take up to six months to cure). Most people add rock salt into them so that as it cures, the rock salt dissolves and leaves holes/crevices in the rock.
 

·
Reef Nut
Joined
·
1,254 Posts
I believe you would be better off w/o any bio-balls. They don't help the biological filtration nearly as much as the live rock and they end up potentially being a place for detritus to accumulate and cause higher nitrates in the tank. That said, people have had success even while keeping them, I just don't think there is any benefit since you have some live rock already. Also, for a sump you can just use a reguler (cheap) fish tank and put in some baffles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
I use a pound per gallon of live rock, filter floss cleaned 3 times a week, chaeto under a 24 hour light and a skimmer and everything is going well. The live rock is enough for bacterial filtration, the trick is to get the muck out before it's broken down by the bacteria. That's done with good flow and good mechanical filtration. Canisters aren't typically used because being hard to clean, they end up not being cleaned.
And here's that sump calculator again from that article http://reefcentral.com/calc/sump.php
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the input. How are those little ceramic cylinders instead of bioballs? Here are some pics of what I currently have. Thanks for the info no the DIY rock, buy I am not ready for that yet. I currently have 11 fish (most are 1")- 3 clowns (2 percula, 1 australian), 2 gobies, 3 damsels, coral beauty, threadfin butterfly (medium size), Lemon butterfly (tiny), Moon wrasse. I guess than makes 12.
 

Attachments

·
Perfeshunal Hikk
Joined
·
8,887 Posts
hehehe Randy!
no condenation will not happen
but we can bring that up in a bi weekely again..

the bio balls dont let the nitrofication process fully happen
Good to see you back tim. And yes, we can make it a bi weekly. There are only two differences between bio-balls and live rock as filtration. It could be an interesting discussion that hopefully won't turn into a SB-BB type debate.
 

·
Reef Nut
Joined
·
1,254 Posts
The little ceramic rings are basically the same thing as the bio balls in terms of capturing detritus and turning in to nitrate factories.
 

·
Perfeshunal Hikk
Joined
·
8,887 Posts
The little ceramic rings are basically the same thing as the bio balls in terms of capturing detritus and turning in to nitrate factories.
All of them (whether ceramic rings or bio balls or any other media) are simply wet/dry media. They all have a maintenance aspect to them. They are simply surface area for the bacteria to live on. With that said, LR has the same issue where it can capture detritus, and, more importantly, phosphates.

They both have there good and bad aspects to them. The difference is which problem you want to deal with. Detritus/nitrates or phosphates. Nitrates are easily handled with an RDSB. Phosphates aren't that easy.
 

·
Perfeshunal Hikk
Joined
·
8,887 Posts
Ok, color me dumb, what's a RDSB? A really deep sand bed??
Not dumb, and close. Sorry. It is a Remote Deep Sand Bed. The most efficient for nitrate issues is a 5-gallon bucket full of sand with a powerhead pumping water across it, with the water only about an inch above the sand bed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
Not dumb, and close. Sorry. It is a Remote Deep Sand Bed. The most efficient for nitrate issues is a 5-gallon bucket full of sand with a powerhead pumping water across it, with the water only about an inch above the sand bed.
Ah yes, I remember now. I have no experience with those. It seems logically that they would work though.
Oh hey and likemike, I like your aquascape, it has depth/activity (sorry can't find the right word)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
is that the same principle as a media reactor? that live sand is the best filter. can't you do this in a sump? thanks guys
 

·
Perfeshunal Hikk
Joined
·
8,887 Posts
is that the same principle as a media reactor? that live sand is the best filter. can't you do this in a sump? thanks guys
No. The principle behind the RDSB is denitrification due to the anaerobic nature of it. You basically take a five gallon bucket and fill it with sand. Then you put a ph on it to pump water across it to keep detritus from settling in it. It removes nitrates from the water.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=896352&highlight=rdsb and all of its split threads (before and after) will give you more reading than my brain can handle at times :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
is that the same principle as a media reactor? that live sand is the best filter. can't you do this in a sump? thanks guys
I read a discussion on RDSB's here on TRT. I believe it was in the think tank forum; perhaps you could do a search on it. Hey Randy, what experience have you had with RDSB's?
 

·
Perfeshunal Hikk
Joined
·
8,887 Posts
I read a discussion on RDSB's here on TRT. I believe it was in the think tank forum; perhaps you could do a search on it. Hey Randy, what experience have you had with RDSB's?
I am still hunting the thread. I remember tdwyatt being in the discussion because they were discussing depth, surface area and flowrate across it.
The one tim posted the link to may be it, I am only on page 7 so far but reading it again.

The one we installed on a 75G tank 2 weeks ago is a 5 gallon bucket that is about 4" from the top, with an inlet bulkhead running from an overflow box drain, an MJ1200 pumping water across the sand, through a bulkead into a 10G tank where it gets pumped back into the tank. It is mainly a FO tank with some dead coral skeletons in the tank. He was reading high nitrates and we put it on there to see whether it actually worked or not at lowering the levels.

There are still a lot of questions I have about the RDSB's but from everything I have read (mostly on RC and here) says that they work 100% at nitrate removal. Most of my questions deal with surface area, flowrate, depth and sand particulate size.
 

·
Perfeshunal Hikk
Joined
·
8,887 Posts
heheh.. the real deep and Deep sand beds have been around for a very long time. the RDSB is a slight mod of one of the orginal filtering methods ( either berlin or another..just cant think of the name of it yet..)
here is our 47 page discussion for it
For some reason, my reply didn't show up. I either didn't post it or TRT ate it.

But, does that thread cover remote deep sand beds or just real deep sand beds? I am referring to a remote sand bed that is housed in a 5 gallon bucket with flow through it and a lid to block all light from it.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top