The Reef Tank banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Member
Joined
·
1,035 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Most conferences I am at a booth or BS'ing. So I have not had the chance to listen to many speakers in quite some time. I know more was said and hopefully others will chime in. But here are some of the things I picked up saturday.

1) While Dr Batten was a little to technical for me and others. I think he brought up the most important point all day. Unless there is some scientific proof and more than 2-3 people have done something new and/or different. Be very careful on what you are doing and figure out who the hell you are reading from. There are a lot of idiots out there are enough guinea pigs to test for you. Let them take the risk.
-pay more attention to our alkalinity levels and the calcium response
2) Mike Paletta had many things he brought up. The main ones I picked up, other than not to start peeing in my tank.
- Clean the skimmer cups and necks a whole lot more often.
-check into the hqi ballasts and Radium bulbs again
-pay more attention to the little/lot of red and nuisance algae's in the tanks and rectify it, sooner than later.
-the degree of problems when some test readings are up just a little
-While I am not into feeding corals, he may have something with the Italian sludge. Just be VERY careful. Your skimmer and tank parameters had better be in line and monitored or you WILL have a disaster on your hands. Who will be first in that category.....?????
- we have a lot of flow in most of our tanks, sps tanks need more
3) Steven Pro I missed more than half, someone else chime in please
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
I love HQI/radium combo... only had experience though with the 250w hqi ballast though. 400 hqi isn't hqi but is high pressure sodium

I couldn't make it unfortunately my son had state b-ball tourney. But I totally agree with the sentiment that alk is one of the most important params to watch and maintain stability... especially with sps. One question I would have liked to ask Paletta and the Seachem guy is, is the absolute value of alk, or is it maintaining ionic balance (at whatever level) with regard to Mg, and Ca?

I have no choice to clean my skimmers neck every other day... thick sludge develops :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
I think Steven's main point was that people who are trying something "new" in their tanks, or trying a recommendation from someone else that had been largely anecdotal, should take a measured approach in what they're trying, and keep notes as to what they learn so they can pass it on to others and keep the amount of misinformation that's out there to a minimum.

For example, he did the simple experiment with the different manufacturers' "reef safe" ich treatments, where he set up several identical tanks with a piece of xenia in each, and added the treatments to see how the xenia responded to each. His results are now info that can be reliably passed on to the reefing community in a point-by-point summary, instead of the typically seen forum advice like "I heard from one guy who's cousin's brother-in-law tried the treatment and wiped out his whole tank", without giving any specifics as to dosage, tank inhabitants and parameters etc., which just muddies things up for everyone and doesn't really help.

Another experiment I thought of that would be useful would be for someone who's thinking about switching from a submersible return pump to an external, to record how much the water temperature changes, which could be helpful for people who are planning a new system etc.
 

·
TCMAS Member
Joined
·
5,667 Posts
Yea I too am worried that some TCMAS members are going to start throwing Vodka in their tank and/or the Italian food recipe without doing all the needed research or using in combination with sub-par skimmers/filtration.....

I also like when Mike talked the process of how he trains his wrasses during quarantine to eat pests.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
This hobby is notorious of that kind of bs, Morty. It's funny. You could take any topic and someone would chime in that that topic caused a tank crash... DSBs come to mind as something that anecdotal caused so many tank crashes. I'm so skeptical of those claims as there are so many systems that have been kept for longer periods of time that disprove that. Yet, someone has experienced that his DSB caused a tank crash...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Yes it might be useful to create a club forum called something like "Club Member Experiments/Results" as a reference for other members where they can look for posted info on various FAQs that people have voluntarily investigated empirically, to keep the anecdotal stuff out. (For example the submersible pump thing I mentioned: Mag 5 will raise 40g system temp 2 deg, Mag 7 2.8 deg, etc., or something like that) In fact it might serve as a means for people to post potential experimental designs and allow other members to offer feedback on the design to help minimize variables etc. before going through with any simple experiments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
I think part of the challenge with that is most people do not understand the concept of the scientific method. In your particular experiment do you have a system running or an empty tank? It makes a difference as depending how much live rock or live sand (corals too) influences how much water you have in your 50 gallon aquarium. Obviously, a bare tank isn't representative of our systems, but provides a reference of what the water volume really is. But by doing real system testing, it'd be good from a practical standpoint, but you'd create issues as some people have a really open rock scape with less rock and other cram their systems full of rock which means there is no longer a 50 gallon tank of water. There's a significant variance and skews the results. This creates an issue by conducting pseudo-experiments rather than something whereby the results may be recreated and verified.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,443 Posts
Yes it might be useful to create a club forum called something like "Club Member Experiments/Results" as a reference for other members where they can look for posted info on various FAQs that people have voluntarily investigated empirically, to keep the anecdotal stuff out. (For example the submersible pump thing I mentioned: Mag 5 will raise 40g system temp 2 deg, Mag 7 2.8 deg, etc., or something like that) In fact it might serve as a means for people to post potential experimental designs and allow other members to offer feedback on the design to help minimize variables etc. before going through with any simple experiments.

I think this is a great idea! I have fed my fish bananas on a regular basis(once a week) for the last few months. No ill effects, fish love it (all the fish in my tank) Their color is great, and the food is natural. It would be great to have a place to log these trials
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
Again, this is where the difficulty comes in... were the fish as colorful before adding bananas to the feeding regimine? Did you change other foods after starting to feed bananas?

To properly assess if there is any effect, you need a control. There is no control here so it's difficult to impossible to correlate the good colorization with the feeding of the banana.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
I think part of the challenge with that is most people do not understand the concept of the scientific method. In your particular experiment do you have a system running or an empty tank? It makes a difference as depending how much live rock or live sand (corals too) influences how much water you have in your 50 gallon aquarium. Obviously, a bare tank isn't representative of our systems, but provides a reference of what the water volume really is. But by doing real system testing, it'd be good from a practical standpoint, but you'd create issues as some people have a really open rock scape with less rock and other cram their systems full of rock which means there is no longer a 50 gallon tank of water. There's a significant variance and skews the results. This creates an issue by conducting pseudo-experiments rather than something whereby the results may be recreated and verified.
Point well made :) ... I guess I was picturing something not so formal as a forum that fosters studies that could withstand peer review, but instead something which if someone were to conduct an experiment like the above example, they could afterward be involved in a Q&A that answers anyone's questions regarding specific variables etc. Also, such a forum might lend itself to helping someone properly structure (or define) their experiment beforehand in a way that more closely follows the tenets of the scientific method... Not sure if it's feasible but it seemed to be a point S. Pro was making in an effort to moderate the sheer quantity of misleading info available on the web...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,725 Posts
I think Steven's main point was that there are some simple tests we could replicate or initiate (not in our displays).
Though it is easier to write a check to a non-profit; many of us doing an experiment with a large margin of error is in fact more accurate than one person doing an experiment with a narrow margin of error.

Thats what I got.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
1,035 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
There was not a lot of info about bulbs, just Paletta said he uses 14k & 20k 400w bulbs. The 20k's were Radium bulbs run on Pfo hqi ballasts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
Point well made :) ... I guess I was picturing something not so formal as a forum that fosters studies that could withstand peer review, but instead something which if someone were to conduct an experiment like the above example, they could afterward be involved in a Q&A that answers anyone's questions regarding specific variables etc. Also, such a forum might lend itself to helping someone properly structure (or define) their experiment beforehand in a way that more closely follows the tenets of the scientific method... Not sure if it's feasible but it seemed to be a point S. Pro was making in an effort to moderate the sheer quantity of misleading info available on the web...
I think in a club setting this may result in more relevance... I mean, if you know someone has a great tank. They didn't change/add/stop doing one thing. There's some good anecdotal experience that could be shared for the benefit of others, esp. if others try and find/dispprove that. It's sad but when I hear of someone on RC say this or that caused this or that.... I'm skeptical immediately, simply because I have no frame of reference of that individual... I mean that poster could be in the hobby for 1 month, and not even understand the basics, yet is making some pretty bold claims without disclosing their experience in the hobby. I'm a skeptic :(
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top