The Reef Tank banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
3 hours into the treatment, I saw my first dead pod floating around. By the 4th hour, mysids are having convulsions (didn't know I had that many - I put two 6 lb rocks in the HT).

Also, at the top of an acro out come a pair of acro crabs. The female had eggs. I quickly pulled the acro out and managed to get the crabs loose. I dropped them in the display tank - I don't think they're going to make it, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

By now, dead red bugs are hanging from slime (see pic). This stuff definitely works.

Corals are fine and the two astreas that hitchhiked are fine. I saw a baby bristle worm fall to its death.

Male



Female



Dead Bugs!

 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
34,435 Posts
you are seeing dead ones after 3 hours!! what dosage did you use? i am trying to figure if i was low on my dosages. it worked fine for me, but the bugs were holding on in my system into the 5th hour.

hope your acro crabs make it, these were the one things i hated to see go when i treated. :(

G~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Geoff said:
you are seeing dead ones after 3 hours!! what dosage did you use? i am trying to figure if i was low on my dosages. it worked fine for me, but the bugs were holding on in my system into the 5th hour.



hope your acro crabs make it, these were the one things i hated to see go when i treated. :(

G~
I used 1.5x the dosage. Many red bugs were still crawling around at 3 hours, but at 4.5 hours most were dead in slime.

This morning, I could not find a live red bug. Also, many pods are dead, but a few made it along with a variety of worms that I saw crawling around this morning.
 

·
Reef Crazed
Joined
·
278 Posts
You wont be sorry , that was one of the best things I did for my corals .
Works like a charm too . I'm still Red Bug Free .:freak:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Im a little confused, why do you want to get rid of them? I thought they were beneficial, and even if theyre not, couldnt a mandarin keep them under control?
 

·
Reef Crazed
Joined
·
278 Posts
krackel said:
Im a little confused, why do you want to get rid of them? I thought they were beneficial, and even if theyre not, couldnt a mandarin keep them under control?
Red Bugs are an Acro parisite . They irratate the corals to the point of bad health . If only mandarins ate them , their would be many happy reef keeperes out there .:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I set up a 20 gallon HT and used 1.15 mg of the active ingredient in Interceptor, which ended up being 1/2 of a brown pill. 23 mg of the active ingredient treats approxmiately 380 gallons, so the ratio per 10 gallons is .6 mg(of active ingredient in Interceptor)/10 gallons.

When I woke up this morning - all the red bugs were gone! I siphoned the dead pods and did a small water change. 5 more days to go before I move all the acros back to the main tank. That should be enough time to starve any red bugs that bailed while removing the acros.

The acros that are in the HT are doing great! Check out a few of my favorites:





 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,355 Posts
Talk to your vet, print a copy of this page to explain the need, maybe go to RC and print the reference page on Red bugs there in the Acro archive so you can calculate the dose.

If you want to treat your Acropora spp and keep your critters (any crustaceans are in peril), treat the acros in a separate tank with a separate light and filtration system and circulation with a power head. Remove any acropora crabs and keep them in a isolation section of the main system. Treat the corals for a solid week, preferably for 2 to 4 weeks as per the RC instructions (read the ENTIRE thread).

If there are enough folks with problems, I will make a detailed post on the subject with the info from Novartis (the manufacturer.) This is a heartworm med for dogs and cats, and Novartis does not recognize this officially as an indicatioin for their product (Milbemycin Oxime). There are some issues with using the drug, but rather reinvent the wheel at this later hour, I'll direct you to RC (unless there is a large need for the info here)

HTH
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
tdwyatt said:
If you want to treat your Acropora spp and keep your critters (any crustaceans are in peril), treat the acros in a separate tank with a separate light and filtration system and circulation with a power head. Remove any acropora crabs and keep them in a isolation section of the main system. Treat the corals for a solid week, preferably for 2 to 4 weeks as per the RC instructions (read the ENTIRE thread).
After going through the red bug treatment 5 months ago, and reading a ton of posts here and on RC before I did it, I would treat everything in your system and live with the crab casualties. Removing corals and treating in another tank is really hit and miss. All you would have to do is have a few red bugs fall off as you move them to another tank and you then will still have them in your main tank.

I just cannot see removing 50+ (even 10) encrusted acros, treating them in another tank, and then having to reglue every one of these... then the red bugs reappear a month later because you didn't treat the main tank!

3 interceptor treatments spaced one week apart is what has proved to be effective. You have to kill the cycle besides the ones you see. Pretty much everyone that tried only one or two treatments (no matter how strong of a dose) wound up getting them back within a month or two.

old link but helpful, started by Dustin from ORA
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=438470#438470
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ReefSitter said:
After going through the red bug treatment 5 months ago, and reading a ton of posts here and on RC before I did it, I would treat everything in your system and live with the crab casualties. Removing corals and treating in another tank is really hit and miss. All you would have to do is have a few red bugs fall off as you move them to another tank and you then will still have them in your main tank.
Borneman completed some research on these bugs and found that they starve within 3-5 days if no acro host is available. Thus, it's critical that you pull every acro and place in the treated HT.

ReefSitter said:
3 interceptor treatments spaced one week apart is what has proved to be effective. You have to kill the cycle besides the ones you see. Pretty much everyone that tried only one or two treatments (no matter how strong of a dose) wound up getting them back within a month or two.
No doubt 3 treatments is effective. But new research suggests that it's not necessary. Borneman found that these bugs are direct developers, meaning that there is no larvae stage. So, a second treatment is only necessary if for some reason a few red bugs survived the first. I will do a second treatment for precautionary measures.

Several have posted their recent success utilizing a separate HT. After seeing the effect of this drug on pods and worms, I'm glad that I'm doing it in a separate tank. For now, the hassle of pulling acros (out of my relatively young tank) is worth it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
You may be correct on this. I guess I was going back to the information available back when I did the treatment. Luckily I have not had to read any further on this since then!
One reason I mentioned the three treatments, was some people I know only did one or two treatments and wound up still having the lrb's 2 months later. But who is to say if they did not add an infected acro, had the dosage incorrect, or ???

time will tell and hopefully you have them beat!
 

·
Skimmer and Reactor
Joined
·
1,657 Posts
Jon,
Please let me know when you frag. I would be interested in a frag of that one in the 2nd photo. Glad to hear treatment is going well.

It's not leaving a few bugs behind in the tank that you have to worry about when treating in a separate tank. It is absolutely necessary to remove every trace of acro flesh. Even a small piece that may be encrusted or broken off on the bottom can keep enough red bugs alive to reinfest the tank.

Melissa
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Melissa said:
Jon,
Please let me know when you frag. I would be interested in a frag of that one in the 2nd photo. Glad to hear treatment is going well.

It's not leaving a few bugs behind in the tank that you have to worry about when treating in a separate tank. It is absolutely necessary to remove every trace of acro flesh. Even a small piece that may be encrusted or broken off on the bottom can keep enough red bugs alive to reinfest the tank.

Melissa
Melissa,

Will do. Yes, I hope there's no acro flesh left in the main tank. I had to cover a couple of spots with epoxy. Also, I found a 1 cm piece of an acro tip that I broke off. I don't think there was any flesh on it, but I took it out anyway.

Jon
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,355 Posts
Jon, how are the acro crabs doing, did they make it?

Unrelated, but did the 2nd Acropora sp. in the photograph you originally posted come from (edit: a local shop- email me about the topic) in Atlanta? I received a specimen of this coral a month or so ago from them that had the mites on it, discovered them while in quarantine (heh, treatment is SUCH a pleasure when the buggers slime off the coral). None of the other specimens I received that day had problems, only that particular one.

Addressing the prior comment to treating the whole tank: it is a bit of overkill, and quite wasteful of both medicine and the supportive life in the system. There is plenty of information and experiences by a number of Acro keepers that supports the posts on RC by Eric on utilizing separate system quarantine treatment with no reoccurrence in the primary system. If your support critters are not as important as your corals, then I suppose that treatment of an entire system (and subsequent crustacean losses) is an acceptable cost, but such losses are unacceptable to me, especially when effective treatment protocols are available that avoids such losses. Two weeks in a quarantine tank of ALL Acroporiid specimens is not too much to ask to rid the system of the mites (even large encrusted specimens) to avoid killing your crustacean populations. If need be, place them in a Rubbermaid trough and blast them with current and adequate pendant lighting for two weeks (might even consider doing it outside when the weather warms up) while treating the specimens with milbemycin. Three to five days appears to be the feeding limit on these bugs, and they are a direct development specie, there isn't a secondary life cycle to be concerned about in the water column.

I would suggest keeping a supply of Milbemycin for a small volume quarantine tank to insure prophy for ALL new incoming specimens. With the potential for specimen losses and reintroduction of the mites, there is not a reason to skip quarantine and prophylactic treatment of all incoming specimens and frags.

HTH, although there is mixed information on whether or not this mite actually kills the coral, or is an opportunist looking for weakened or dying corals to feed upon has not been convincingly corroborated. It DOES appear that the mounting evidence supports the POV that they can and do weaken and kill some specimens (might be specie-related,) especially frags and small colonies with insufficient stored nutrition.


Back to Jon: I'd love to see your system next time I'm in Atlanta, you should post a few more pix!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Tom,

I now have my tail between my legs on this. Since I responded before reading Borneman's article, I was merely relying on the "old method" of treating for these little red b*strds. Now that I have read it, more studies and success have obviously been done. I do know of several people who tried one treatment in the main tank and still had them for various reasons, ie: calculated dosage/water volume incorrectly, measured the interceptor incorrectly, ran carbon, etc.

I still cringe at thinking about taking 70+ acro's out of my tank, but in the long run the main tank life would be unaffected.

So now we can move on to the next acro prob, acro eating flatworms!

P.S. still can't believe I would ever challenge anything you say :thumbup:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,355 Posts
ReefSitter said:
...still can't believe I would ever challenge anything you say...
Man, don't ever be afraid to challenge anything that gets posted here. hek, I could be having a bad day and don't reference something I say, or just make a blatant mistake and miss an obvious opportunity to make a good change for the hobby. This is the way the hobby as grown (and even contributed input to the study of reefs and captive coral husbandry) from humble beginnings in the 80's.


Don't ever feel that you can't challenge authority, even well-established thought on husbandry...


Just ask Ron... :rolleyes:


Thanks for the comments, but I would cringe at the thought that there was EVER any pressure to quench dissension, so long as it is civil and thoughtful, rather than rash or irrational. Thoughtful change through challenge is what has driven the hobby to success, I think you did Great!
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top