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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I added some more fish last night and they are doing ok, but I think my pijama cardinal got a little stressed through the whole process.

He has developed a white spot in the very center of his eye, and didn't eat at all this morning (he ususally eats like a pig if I'm not careful). I attatched a pic of it to give you an idea of what sit looks like.

Is this popeye? Whatever it is, Can someone tell me what causes it, how to treat it, and if my other fish will be ok? Thank you soo much--I'm really worried about this.

~Kayla
 

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cant tell by the pic, popeye is a bacterial infection, if it starts to swell and look cloudy you'll want to get him into a q tank quickly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry about the picture. His whole eye isn't swelling right now--it's just a tiny white dot that sticks out in the very center. Other than that and not eating, he seems fine.

~Kayla
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I spoke too soon on the eating problem. I tried again and he was definatley hungry :)

The spot is on the outside of his eye. It sticks straight out and looks like you could pull it off (don't worry, I didn't-couldn't try).

~Kayla
 

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hmmm, sounds like ich to me. Feed him some garlic and float some crushed cloves in a filter bag insided the tank. Or you can take him out and treat him in a quarantine tank which would be your best solution but maybe not practical.

Just out of curiousity, what are your water parameters?

Am
Ni
Na
PH
SG
Ca
KH

?

Just asking because it sounds a little soon for you to be adding fish (I know it's hard to resist)

Nate
 

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Cryptocaryon doesnt appear on the eye surface

I dont think garlic is gonna help

does go nice diced and shoved into steak though, yummy
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I got all of my stuff from an established tank and I had just LR and sand in for a few days. I was told that there would be no cycle if my LR was already established, and all of my params are perfect according to the LFS guy I just went to (he tested them for me).

~Kayla
 

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Mega, It's true Ich doesn't appear on the eye's surface, but it can appear on the transparent membrane that covers the eyes of some fish like an eye-lid. I personally have seen this on several of my fish. Soaking their food in Garlic juice did help IMHO. Although most of the evidence of garlic clearing up Ich is anectotal, there is alot of it. Most supporters believe that garlic boosts a fish's natural immune response, helping them to produce the mucose coating that allows them to resist infestations of Cryptocaryon.

Kayla,
Just keep a close eye on those water parameters. I'm hoping you have your own test kits, but if you need more testing let me know, I work in Norcross. Also keep a close eye on that spot, he may fight it off on his own, but it can spread fast.

Nate
 

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Oh, and Mega: Crushed garlic goes in ALL my steak marinades. My fav recipie for rib-eye marinade:
1/2 cup soy sauce
1/4 cup olive oil (extra virgin of course)
Juice of one lemon
3 cloves freshly crushed garlic

The smell of that grillin has my neighbors banging down my door!
 

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Royal Grammas typically get Brooklynella, which is sometimes mistaken for ich.

When I see an infestation on the eye, it's usually trematodes aka flukes or flatworms (not to be confused with red planaria aka flatworms - that's a different can of worms - pardon the pun!).

Freshwater dip for 5-7 minutes will kill these organisms which infest the whole body but usually start inside the soft tissue of the mouth, gills and eyes. After about 3 minutes in fresh water, the parasites cannot osmoregulate, and implode and fall off, and they look like transparent sesame seeds. Sometimes larger, sometimes smaller, but usually about the size of sesame seeds.

Popeye is bacterial, but usually results in the whole eye socket protruding. From what Kayla described, I doubt it is that, or Brooklynella or Ich.

Yes, if rock and substrate were moved from one glass box to another, there would not be a cycle, and she would be safe to proceed slowly, as with any "established" system. There is quite a bit of livestock there already according to her sig line, but if her parameters are testing fine, there is no reason to be worried about a spike - just be sparing on feedings and keep a close eye.

Jenn
 

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> Soaking their food in Garlic juice did help IMHO. Although most of the evidence of garlic clearing up Ich is anectotal, there is alot of it. Most supporters believe that garlic boosts a fish's natural immune response, helping them to produce the mucose coating that allows them to resist infestations of Cryptocaryon.


My honest opinion on this..

I believe most people underfeed, pretty baddly too.

When fish get sick, and this method is used, they feed more soaked food at levels the fish should be getting to start with, which allows thier immune system to recover. Of course this is difficult to prove, someone that's used the garlic method, and had repeat ich would have to attempt this, short term of course I wouldnt want to risk the health of someones animal just to prove it.

This is just my opinion.

I've never had fish with ich, and I've bought fish with ich, and had them recover in the main tank without infecting others. I've done this a few times, got a dirt cheap magestic, and a dirt cheap purple tang this way quite a few years ago.

By no means am I recomending others do this, but I dont think twice on my own system. My latest tang had some ich, not noticable at the store, but noticable when I got it in the tank, it recovered in a few days.

L8r mega
 

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Our Tang goes through cycles of ich, and we always feed a little garlic when we see it flaring. It seems to do the trick. If it doesn't we add a little RX-P and it works pretty well.

As for popeye, our banggai cardinal got it pretty bad earlier this year and we had to move it to a QT tank. We added some penicillin to the QT tank and it cleared up in about 5-6 days. The banggai did not eat that entire time, but it did very well once the swelling went down. We just maintained a nice population of live brine shrimp in the tank with him. When we noticed the brine all gone one day, we knew he was better and fed him more.

Our popeye incident started as a small milky spot on his eye, that soon expanded and made his whole eye swell out of his eye. Our regal tang gets ich all over, including spots over his eyeballs. It is one of the easiest places for us to see it on him.
 

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Jenn, How do you tell the difference between brooklynella and Ich? The reason I ask is that I my gramma seems to be the only one with any Ich. It only shows up occasionally around the fins and tail. None of my other fish (Including an Atlantic Pygmy Angel, a Pair of False Percs, a 6-line, and a Falco Hawkfish) seem to get it. I saw my 6-line cleaning my angel and though that might be why, but maybey it's not Ich? I do see the Gramma 'flashing' against the rocks, and he's really the only teritoral fish in the tank so maybey he's just stressin himself out while the rest of the fish are chillin :cool:
 

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MegaDeTH said:
[B
I believe most people underfeed, pretty baddly too.

[/B]
WOW --- definatly disagree on this point.

Most people way Overfeed which in itself causes water quality problems which causes stress which causes ect.....

Haven't feed my two fish in over 3 months now --- Not even a table scrap. They are always fat and happy and very active. And never a blemish on them.

If your reef can't support the fish you have maybe you have to many fish.

Do you have a reef tank ??? or maybe a FOWLRAC ??? (Fish Only With Live Rock And Corals)

I think most people have a FOWLRAC but tout it as a reef tank.

Of course this is JMNSHO and most people think MNSHO sucks :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Nate, I do have my own kits. They are Red Sea, though, so I am kinda worried about their reliability. When I get enough money, I will "convert" to SeaChem (little did I know their price is almost the same--I wasted my money).

Update on PJ's eye:

This eye is soo unpredictable!!! Last night, it was COMPLETELY GONE. I was happy, until I installed the protein skimmer and changed the canister filter's carbon. This morning, it was back and on both eyes... :mad:

So... I went to the Aviarium, and showed the guy some digital pics. He thought it was the beginnings of ich, and (although I already knew this it was nice to be reassured) it cannot spread to my other fish because it's a matter of the immune system working not of an introduced disease--I hope my explaining is clear to you. Yeah, you guys probably know what I mean.

My other thought is, could it be gas embolisms? I was reading that they can cause eye trouble, and he seems to love to eat the bubbles that come out of my power filter... don't ask! If "it" goes away again tonight, I'm gonna really wonder.

Sorry abot the long post and thanks for the help!

~Kayla

Also, this is way off-topic, but I was wondering what chemicals you add into your tank the help the corals. Everyone seems to add different stuff--or have a different opinion--on what is necessary. Right now all I'm adding is the Kent Marine Tech CB calcium buffer in the mornings... is there anything else I should get (I have a frogspawn and mushrooms)?
 

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>Most people way Overfeed which in itself causes water quality problems which causes stress which causes ect.....


I base this logic on what I've seen in nature, and the advice given to people in books & on the boards..
 

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I should also note, I feed daily or twice daily, formula 1 soaked in selco, a good 1x1 square chunk (I buy the BIG blocks), current tank is a 75g

When I'm gone, or stop feeding heavily the whole tank suffers, the sps/lps growth is much better when I feed heavy (twice daily)

The heavy feeding I do is not for the fish, it's for the coral, but indirectly the fish are fat & healthy.

L8r mega
 

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There seems to be a heap of misinformation in this thread. I'm not flaming here but there are a number of conflicting opinions. Most of us, myself included are speaking from experience - and I'm not challenging that - but I am ponderous about the accuracy of some of the diagnoses.....

I can't say I've ever heard of somebody starving their fish into illness - if I had a dollar for everybody who overfeeds (junk food) I'd be able to retire.... :rolleyes:

Ich: Have NEVER EVER seen it on a cardinalfish - period. I've worked in the industry for nearly 3 years now, been a hobbyist for 17 years. In my 3 years in the industry, I have never seen a cardinal get ich, even when there was an outbreak in the system they were housed in. I'm not saying they cannot get it, but I am saying that they generally do not get it. Ditto with bacterial infections - we had a time last year when our FO system was infected with Vibrio - some of you will remember that, and the horror that it was - none of my cardinalfishes (or hawkfishes) were affected. Cardinals are very resistant to disease and infestation.

The fact that both eyes are cloudy now more or less rules out mechanical injury, IMO. Gas embolisms usually show up in the soft tissue around the eye sockets, and they are obvious bubbles under the skin (and can be carefully deflated with a syringe, but this takes 2 people to do, usually, and a very steady hand!)

I'm not suggesting that I've got all the answers - however, in my experience, a FW dip cures many many ills, including a variety of ectoparasites. I would try that first - see if anything drops off, observe the fish for 24 hours. If something DOES drop off, repeat the dip each day until the fish dips "clean". If no improvement is seen in 2-3 days, then use that time to research other causes and cures.

For all those who are seeing bouts of ich or other ectoparasites on a regular basis, my advice is to determine WHY, fix that, and the parasite problem will subside. IME, parasite outbreaks are a symptom of another problem. Fix that, and you fix the parasite issue. Often this can be traced to temp swings, pH swings, overcrowding, water quality, stray voltage and other hidden stressors that aren't obvious until you look for them. It's not 'normal' to go through periodic bouts of infestation.

Good water quality, healthy diet and low stress are the keys to good fish health.

HTH
Jenn
 
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