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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am setting up a 55g cube with 20g sump. To replace my 20g nano. I purchased 30lb of fresh live rock about 20 days ago. It was placed in a tank at my parents house with a heater and power heads. And lights running. This is while I was on holidays. It was then transported to my house (10 min drive) it was moved in tank water so was never exposed out of water. It was put into display tank with about 5lb of extra Rock out of current set up. This was all moved into tank 7 days ago. I have seen no rise is ammonia. Nitrite or nitrate. All still at oppm. There may have been a small rise in ammonia. Less than 0.25 but hard to say. Has my tank cycled??? I don't want to rush. But I need to shut down my current 20g asap. It has another 10lb of Rock remaining that will also be added . What should I do!!! My small tank needs to be shut down
 

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Add some unscented ammonia to 4 ppm. If it's gone in 24 hours, you're done
 

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Have you or are you going to move the contents [water, livestock, rock, sand] from your 20g nano into the new set up? If not, in essence, this is a new set up, and you're going to reply on the bacteria and die off of the LR to seed the system.

I'm subscribing....I'm not convinced that anyone can cycle a new tank in 24 hours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yea all live stock ( 2 fish. 2 snails . Pair of cb shrimp) .various soft coral and last 10lb of live rock will be moved over. Not old sand. Unless it's benificial. This set-up is about 5 months old
 

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Yes, it may have more effect on your cycle than the LR. It has more surface area.

I wouldn't put the livestock in the new tank until parameters are within a relatively safe ballpark of 'close'.

You're in a tough situation here. I'd hate to see you loose any livestock over this.
My gut tells me the Coral Banded Shrimp are most @ risk, as they do not tolerate high nitrates well.
 

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Have you or are you going to move the contents [water, livestock, rock, sand] from your 20g nano into the new set up? If not, in essence, this is a new set up, and you're going to reply on the bacteria and die off of the LR to seed the system.

I'm subscribing....I'm not convinced that anyone can cycle a new tank in 24 hours.
Here's two

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/358002-dgphelps-5-gallon-marineland-portrait-pico/

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6/buying-a-used-mature-reef-tank-227833.html

I have never cycled a tank Ive owned. We can easily use biology to skip a cycle, the op in this thread did it like the two above

The op could have brought the live home out of water and still no cycle. API test kit readings have caused a total and sustained misinterpretation of cycling biology. These tricks shown above only work when using cured live rock. A true cycle does take weeks or months depending.

Live rock will maintain its bacteria without any dieoff or feeding for months and months, they are self sustaining as standard respiration waste fuels bacteria in addition to normal life cycles on the rock that include life cycle death from benthic life and bacteria but not from transporting live rock.

Transporting live rock never causes a cycle if you control the transfer, we did whole tanks above and predicted the results before the tests were ran. Setting up that 90 with an entire complement of corals anems and fish is an instant cycle setup, same as coming home from lfs

I realize nine people will post they had an initial cycle, but guess what brand of test was used
We keep producing instant cycle tank threads by ignoring API, predicting what it will say, and by using other indicators in the tank to truly read ammonia. Micro fanworms on live rock will not open in the slightest trace of free ammonia
Snails cannot tolerate free ammonia at .25, pods too

Finicky corals like Gsp will never open in .25 water thats truly .25
And many more details we only need a picture to manage

My live rock was bought home stacked in an open dry box not even submerged. It was put in a tank with wet pack rinsed live sand, some corals filled with water ten yrs ago

The source for all cycling confusion is found by google searching

API test kits always show .25

API cannot be used accurately for low level readings. Its helpful for large level indications like a dead fish. Three days ago it was predicted that within a week another .25 problem thread would be posted here. Same prediction stands, within a week we'll see another. It will consist of fully cured live rock being transferred in a way that doesn't kill it with resulting mini cycle implications but the tank will have all other indicators of no ammonia. If we post a pic here of the OPs tank we can dissect picture based ammonia assessment
 

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Man drains his reef six hours a day every day
No mini cycle

http://reefbuilders.com/2010/10/19/simon-garratts-intertidal-reef-months/

Here we disassemble a .7 gal reef with clam, nonphoto and stony corals, set the living material on a table and blast it with peroxide, put it back together and get no mini cycle

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/355416-another-07-pico/page-3

These threads show why bringing rock home wet from a pet store is super easy to do. We are blasting peroxide in addition to having these animals out of water.

We are advising people to do things with aquariums that could kill the entire setup were this not rock solid, repeatable science.

Pictures of a tank with live rock are more accurate for gauging ammonia than a test kit.

There is only one reason I take the time to make big posts on cycling and tank tear down or transplant threads. It isn't to cause a ruckus its to show how to fully predict and control what a reef does so that our money doesn't go to waste now, or 1000 days into the tank. If you know when to be sure, your entire experience changes.
 

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If you don't see any spike and see it being processed then you don't know for sure if it's safe for your livestock. You can either throw a table shrimp in there and let it rot to produce ammonia or you can do as Rfffanatic suggested and find some pure ammonia (should not have suds when you shake it) and dose the tank. Then you can see the cycle working with your own eyes on your tests and you'll know for sure it's safe to start adding livestock.
 

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If you're transferring rock from a tank you know (another of your own or a fellow reefer) I agree completely about skipping the cycle by transferring the rock in water - you know that this rock can and will support life. The problem with LFS rock is you have no idea what it went through in their care. It could be base rock that's only been in there a week or two, it could've just been shipped in and been out of the water for days - I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying attempting it with unknown LFS rock is very risky. I know I wouldn't risk my fish/corals on assuming their rock wasn't filled with die-off and/or had enough bacteria to support my fish. It could be fine but you don't know unless you test it to find out. If you see it working with your own eyes you can be confident adding stock - imo you should never add anything living unless you're sure you did your best and covered all your bases.
 

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Sounds good. Thats why I like to see pics, if the live rock had any coralline and fanworms its cycled and these threads show how the transfer works.

Its true lfs many times sell bone white rock as cycled and indeed it may not be. And I've even seen two posts here where painted fake LR was sold as live, those were interesting posts. We should have a thread on the visual cues real LR has vs the fake painted stuff. Small details on that rock is still a dead giveaway

Curious to see pics of the tank in question for this thread for sure~

Fake painted live rock never looks like this even if you stack it :) they paint in reds, yellows, greens like ocean cured rock, too good to be true. Since its painted on not formerly live coral accreted an aeon ago the actual porosity isn't the same either.

aquarium stuff is purple and has fanworms. Imperfections on the growing edges of coralline that are white but due to new pigment, not dead. There are castings of recently used fanworms. There are layers of coralline, stratification details that isn't found in a 1D painted rock scape. dont just look at your selected live rock, look around the edges of the tank holding all the live rock, see what's fallen or been broken off

Old coral skeleton actually shows in many larger pieces of live rock
Serupulid worms are seen, pods every once in a while. A tiny tuft of algae we better fix before using, seek the imperfections to see truly aged rock.

Your point about verification is excellent. The first step in controlling the cycle of a tank is identifying the cured nature of the live rock and not assuming its cured until it meets criteria, but the challenge is what criteria, api or living animals. The current standard is make all cycling decisions from api results and never, never, never second guess them. I'm recommending change that to another brand test kit that shows reputable search returns, like salifert, or forego ammonia testing and use visual gauge as its easy and reliable, such that threads like those above are possible. If the cured rock bought has no age verifiers, use a good ammonia test and 3ppm it. If there are age verifiers and living animals that show no leaking ammonia, skip that.

A counterpoint to the above statement is that you do not have to source live rock from your own tank, it is predictable even from others tanks but im talking same city, not that you can ship live rock and control a cycle the same.

Untrust of biology is why the masses are very restricted in cycling options, API was how they cut their teeth, there's no other frame of reference we simply wait longer for rock that was ready to go until the .25 is eventually ignored. We won't doubt our foundations easily.

Here's the LR bin from my lfs good trustworthy folks they are. Any lr from this bin does what's mentioned above. even over the next ten years, it will do the same=predictable, reassured, no cycle tanks, repeatable. Every pico reef Ive ever made was from this rock and they were all skip cycle tanks, thats literally how we build pico reefs now and those are supposed to be more delicate than larger tanks.

Thousands of people skip cycles now, check out any board that has a specific forum for pico reefs for the hotbed of it
 

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worked well

the live rock was truly live for once exactly as stated in the first paragraph, thats awesome
you never had any ammonia from day 1 and I dont have to go redact two pages




knowing the source of the live rock helped in this case, your source is like mine...Live rock with plenty of age indicators it will always be able to transport under these same conditions


the sole factor that caused doubt in this thread was a questionable low level ammonia reading but we found better ways to know the real ammonia level. api ammonia test kits cause problems with low level readings but work better for indicating large swings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ok. So you think it will be fine to slowly start moving stock over?? I will keep checking levels. My aqua medic skimmer pulled a lot of skin the first week. But is now pulling very little. Is that cause there is little waste or is there a problem ? ??
 

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if you are not in a rush to move them, its ok to take any cool pace it doesnt have to be all at once.

adding corals or inverts doesnt count for risk like fish do...so if you have fish, acclimate slowly, take time it w be fine. if you were thinking on moving some corals yes Id say thats fine, some are already in there doing nicely.

the skimmer prob reacted to minor waste liberated in the rock xfr, doing its job things look great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
That coral come out of the rock I purchased. Didn't know it was there till I got it home.Thanks will slowly start moving across . Will shift it over a week or so.. Thanks all for the help!!!
 
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