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Discussion Starter · #2 ·

Various


Unknown Wild(An ID would be great)


Green/Blue Striata and Green Montipora Digidata


Full Tank Shot

Hope you guys enjoy, please let me know what you think!

Dave
 

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Very nice! I like the way you showed that, I was thinking as I was looking at the individual corals what it looked like in the tank as a whole...and then got to the full tank shot...are they new corals? They look great!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Viv said:
Very nice! I like the way you showed that, I was thinking as I was looking at the individual corals what it looked like in the tank as a whole...and then got to the full tank shot...are they new corals? They look great!
Corals vary from 4 months to about 7 months top. Thanks for te compliment.

Whiskey:

Tank is a 75G BB Main display. 30G sump, 12GDSB<--shhhh(just added over the weekend) Couldn't get nitrates under 7, so I have a filter sock before that section, so no detritus can settle in there and I plan on changing out the bed after about 6-8 months. If I had the room for a bigger skimmer(beckett) I would of defintely rather gone that route, but, unfortunately I live home and my tank is in my bedroom. 10 Gallon water changes weekly

Equipment List:

-Deltec MCE600 Skimmer
-2 x Tunze 6000 on a Tunze 6095
-1 x Closed Loop run by a Mak 4 with 2 penductors
-2 x 175W Iwasaki 15K Aqua2
-2 x 110W VHO URI Super-A
-4x 55W 7100K PC Bulbs
-Heater/ Fan System run by a Ranco(Temp. never drops below 79 or above 81)
-2 x Fludized Filters(Carbon/Rowaphos)
-Geo 612 Calcium Reactor

Live stock List:
-2 x Lyretail Anthias
-Blue Throat Trigger
-Purple Tang
-3 x Chromis
-Six line wrasse
-Foxface
-Cinnamon Clown

Corals:
SPS
-Pink/Red Polyp Millepora
-Unknown Hitchiker Frag
-Orange/Pink Table
-Blue Millepora
-Green Millepora
-Orange Monti Cap
-Ultra green Acro
-Super Hairy Green Stag(supposedly slimer-don't think it is)
-Blue/Purple Formosa
-Tan/Purple Tip Acro
-True Green SLimer
-Idaho Grape Monti Cap
-Pink Birdsnest
-Tri-color Valida
-Purple Valida
-Spring Daisy Monti(Purple Polyp/Yellow Base)
-Yellow BAse/Blue Polyp Monti Danae
-Blue/Green Striata
-Green Digidata
-Blue Tip Stag
-Pink/Brown Polyp Mille
-Bright Green Polyp Tan/Pink BAse Acro
-Few others
LPS
-Green/Red Blasto
-Purple/Orange Ricordia
 

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Quite a list, Thanks! I am supprized you know the name of all your corals, if I had to list mine about half would be Acropora SP :)

I know you want to keep the DSB quiet, but I wated to mention that a DSB in a 12G tank, being asked to process about 100G of water is going to fill up very fast. Weither or not deatris is getting in there or not, bacteria are going to do what they do, migrate nutreants. It doesn't take direct setteling of deatris to alow the bacteria to lock up phospate. I have no doubt that you will lower nitrate, but I am just worried about how much phospate and general nutreants will be taken away from your skimmer. I am also worried about the filter sock, deatris in a high flow area like that will break down very quickly.

Great tank! What is your lighting cycle like?

Thanks,
Whiskey
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Whiskey: I've been running filter socks since day one, it has always helped to keep particle matter out of the display, and also keep stuff from settling in the sump. I change them every 2 days(before anything really nasty can build up).
The remote DSB is more of a trial more than anything.Like I said, I would have definetely loved to get a bigger skimmer, just have no more room. Do you have any idea how long it will take that amount of sand(about 40 lbs) to fill up, I have no problem changing it out sooner than 6 months, I just don't dont know how long. Ideally, my nitrates will drop to 0 from 7, and phosphates will remain at 0(D&D Merck Test Kit), time will tell. I will have to run more nitrate and phosphate tests to keep a closer eye and what my levels are doing.
My lighting cycle is a bit longer than what many people have. Mt actinics go on at 7:30/8A.M. One Halide comes on at 8, the other at 9. 7100K come on around noon. One halide off at 5, the other off at 6. Actinics off at 8. 7100K off at 7.

Thanks for the compliments.

Dave
 

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Whiskey: I've been running filter socks since day one, it has always helped to keep particle matter out of the display, and also keep stuff from settling in the sump. I change them every 2 days(before anything really nasty can build up).
That's the thing though, the sump is supposed to be a setteling area. Deatris breaks down to it's component parts (most annoingally for us nitrate and phospate) very quickly in a high flow area like a filter sock. If you were to just let it settle out on the bottom of your sump, then suck it out every week or so I think you would be much better off for it then changing the sock every 2 days.
The remote DSB is more of a trial more than anything.Like I said, I would have definetely loved to get a bigger skimmer, just have no more room. Do you have any idea how long it will take that amount of sand(about 40 lbs) to fill up, I have no problem changing it out sooner than 6 months, I just don't dont know how long. Ideally, my nitrates will drop to 0 from 7, and phosphates will remain at 0(D&D Merck Test Kit), time will tell. I will have to run more nitrate and phosphate tests to keep a closer eye and what my levels are doing.
I have no idea how long it will take to fill up, just that it will be fast, because immagine how much sand you would need to fill your tank/sump with a DSB then figure that will last around 3-5 years. The problem here is not that it will fill up, but that when first added it is unstable, then it has to establish it's self, then it starts pulling nutreants in and anamals grow down in there, then it starts to get full/crash. In a normal DSB tank it takes about 1/2 to 1 year for the unstable bit/establishing to get over with, then it pulls in nutreants for a couple of years as anamals grow, and finally near the end of it's life starts to get full, and cause algae, then finally crash. I am worried that "sweet spot" might be really short with yours causing more harm than good.

My lighting cycle is a bit longer than what many people have. Mt actinics go on at 7:30/8A.M. One Halide comes on at 8, the other at 9. 7100K come on around noon. One halide off at 5, the other off at 6. Actinics off at 8. 7100K off at 7.

Thanks for the compliments.

Dave
So you are running about a 12 hour total photoperiod, with a 9 hour MH photoperiod?

Thanks,
Whiskey
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Whiskey:

Your lighting addition is correct! Sorry for being so unclear..lol

I was reading a thread from Calfo about how a remote DSB in a bucket works great to reduce nitrates, so, I took that and rather than using a bucket, I used a section of the sump. Maybe I'm not seeing how it could be different? Also, as long as I have a filter sock before the entrance into my remote DSB section the usual DSB animals shouldn't be able to survive without their proper nourishment(detritus).
Not using a filter sock would work great if I had a beckett skimmer and could skim wetter and remove all that detritus, but, being that I can only skim somewhat wet, I have to rely on other things to remove the particle matter, I think?

PLease correct me if I am wrong on any of my ideas, I am just putting a few different theories I have read together into a mixture that will hopefully turn out o.k..

Dave
 

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rutz81 said:
Whiskey:

Your lighting addition is correct! Sorry for being so unclear..lol
Not really unclear, I just wanted to simplify it.

I was reading a thread from Calfo about how a remote DSB in a bucket works great to reduce nitrates,
Indeed it does I have no doubt that your nitrate will drop like a rock, but you are exchanging nitrate for a phospate sink that can only hold so much.
so, I took that and rather than using a bucket, I used a section of the sump. Maybe I'm not seeing how it could be different?
They are not, the bucket would do the same thing
Also, as long as I have a filter sock before the entrance into my remote DSB section the usual DSB animals shouldn't be able to survive without their proper nourishment(detritus).
Here we disagree, you have a filter sock before your DSB section, in this sock your particulate deatris breaks down very fast into phospate, and nitrate, and a host of other things, bactera need to make a soup to pick up these elements, the flow will sweep these things right into the DSB section. I don't know if you would be better off with or without the sock, but I think best case would be to have ONLY your skimmer output entering this area, but it would still fill up.

Not using a filter sock would work great if I had a beckett skimmer and could skim wetter and remove all that detritus, but, being that I can only skim somewhat wet, I have to rely on other things to remove the particle matter, I think?
A needle wheel skimmer can skim wet too, it is just a matter of setting the water level high enough, is yours maxed out? Particlate matter will settle out in the sump, where you can syphon it out with your water changes, if you have the setteling area there. That is what most of us do.

PLease correct me if I am wrong on any of my ideas, I am just putting a few different theories I have read together into a mixture that will hopefully turn out o.k..

Dave
I use my nitrate as a tool, I have yet to attain 0 either, but that tells me that there is something I am not getting clean, deatris on the rock, skimmer not wet enough, or rocks not done sheading yet. The nitrate is not going to kill anything, so for the time being I use it to tell me how clean my system is, along with watching out for algae on my glass.

Though this sand will do what you expect it to, (remove nitrates) I just want you to know what else it will do (as time passes load up with phospate, produce algae).

In the end you will use what you are confortable with, and what has worked for you, I am just trying to explain another way of looking at it.

Whiskey
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
As my nitrates plummet, as you and others have said, couldn't I very closely watch my phosphates and at the point of them starting to rise in the very slightest, I swap out my sandbed for a new one? I think in the long run(or short) whether I use this technique or not will depend on how long it takes for the sand to become exhausted.
And yes, my skimmer is set to skim as wet as it goes.

And believe me, I am not trying to argue with you at all, I really appreciate you trying to show me both sides of this spectrum, so to speak.

As far as the filter sock goes, I have tested phosphates/nitrates both from inside the sock and in the display, they are identical. I think what you are saying about the deatris may hold true, but, as long as I stay on top of changing the socks out as regualrly as I do, I don't believe that it will be a problem. On the other hand, if I was to leave the sock for a week or so, I defintely believe it will be a problem.

Thanks again for your help.
 

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I think you'd be better off changing section's of the sand bed over time. If you make a plastic form, you can stick that in the sand and remove the sand inside the form and replace it without much disturbance to the surrounding sand. If you swap the whole thing out at the same time you'll have to wait at least a few month's for it to be established again.

Also IMO if you've got the sand there you might as well just skip the sock and let the crud get to the sand.

My tank is set up basically the same way, BB display with a 6"DSB in the sump. I also have some rock, a few fish and a normal cleanup crew down there. There is chaeto, but it is still slow growing. I do skim wet, but I don't go too crazy, about a gallon every three day's
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Mike: How long do you wait to change some of sand? Also, how much do you take out when you do this? 1/2, 3/4??
Thanks for chiming in.

Dave
 

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I think every six months will be good. I'd take out about 1/4 of it or so each time. I've had a DSB for about five year's before it started causing problem's. But with the way it's set up there is certainly less crap setteling down there compared to the same bed inside the display. If you use some good live sand in the mix and keep a cleanup crew so food that makes it there doesn't just sit and rot you should be good. Keep some macro to suck up what nutrient's it can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Do you keep you'd lit, as well? Right now it is 4-5", should I get some more sand to make it atleast 6"??
 

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Let me ask a question if I may. The allure of the DSB is twofold. 1. It serves as a denitrification factory and 2. it serves as a refuge for biodiversity wich can be live food, housekeepers etc. If the sole purpose of the DSB in this set-up is denitrification and the secondary goal is to eliminate the posibillity of creating a P04 sink would it make sense to simply vacuum half of the sand each month. Does that make sence? If the vacuum efluent is strained through a poly pad or cloth any critters can be returned to the tank.

I ask this because for my next tank I was thinking of going Bare Bottom to eliminate the DSB headaches. Could this method allow the benefits and eliminate the drawbacks at the same time?
 

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IME disturbing a DSB is not a good idea. That's why I say take out one whole section and replace it. That doesn't really disturb too much.
 

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: I've been running filter socks since day one, it has always helped to keep particle matter out of the display, and also keep stuff from settling in the sump. I change them every 2 days(before anything really nasty can build up). rutz ,: this is good practice . i change my sock out every other day . a sock is a great tool in our arsenal , and like any other piece of equipment we have ,it only performs well if kept clean . i would politely :) disagree with whisk on this one , as we sock users are doing the same thing as letting the detritus be picked up in the skimmer , we are physically removing the detritus instead of using a complete mechanical cycle to do it . the bacteria doesn't need big chunks of detritus to do its job , it needs whats in the water column to do it . we don't see things like phosphate , ammonia and nitrates with our eyes like we see detritus , but we know its there , in the water . even though i use a sock my skimmers still skim , i just don't have big chunks of detritus in my skimmate , but all the other stuff is still in it . i haven't touched ( cleaned) my sump since its been set-up ( a year now ) because theres nothing to clean .
 
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