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Reefkeeping made easy- what was not explained.

899503 Views 1783 Replies 195 Participants Last post by  hackshobby
here are a few threads that were started in another forum about what is going on in our system. hopefully some of you all will read the information here and start to get a handle on what makes our systems work or not work. I know this may require some reading and those on the internet are allergic to reading threads that are not theirs, but give this thread a go. I am hoping that it will answer most of the questions you may have about reefkeeping. these first three posts may be a bit disjointed. as they came from the other thread. I will try and edit them so that they flow a bit better and lead into each other better.

the biggest things we will be discussing in this thread are the biological process that are going on in our systems. these biological process are what most of the false information that is out there is about. this includes reef forums and LFS. The two main elemental processes we will be discussing are the Nitrogen and Phosphate cycles that are occurring in our systems. these two elements lead to the greatest confusion about what is going on in our little slices of ocean.

There will be a lot of information in this thread. I will be linking to other threads with even more reading and papers on the subject at hand for even further reading. This hobby is easy if you understand what is going on, if you do not care to understand what is going on and listen to a lot of false information out there, then this hobby can be very frustrating and lots of wasted money.
I would anybody to ask questions if they need clarifications. I will try and keep things as short as possible to keep the reading down to a minimum, but some of this stuff is fairly long winded in general.

G~

UPDATE

A sort of Table of Contents for the thread. please feel free to PM any subjects or pages i should add to the contents.

Introduction: Page 1
Nitrogen cycle: Pages 1-2, 22
Phosphates: Page 3, 31
Sources of Phosphates: Page 3
Phosphate Cycle Graphics: Page 35
Early Tank Processes: Page 30
Problems with Sand: Page 4, 19
Sandbed Cleaning:page 7
DSB's: Page 9
BB Alternatives: Page 25
About LR: Page 8
LR Purging: Page 19, 26
Cured LR: Page 23
Tank Flow: Page 7
Light: Pages 13-15
Kalkwasser: Page 12, 17
Feeding: Pages 17-19
Zoax: Pages 15-17
Carbon Dosing: Pages 24-25
Tank Self Feeding: Page 27
Conservation of Matter: Page 28
Beer!: Pages 6-7
Bad Experts: Page 19
Definitions according to Spanky: Page 21
My Reference Links: Page 37
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...and what eats poop also poops. :D

nice sum-up G
...and what eats poo also poos.

Nice sum-up G
He Called the S**T Poop.. :freak: Very Very True...

If u can clean it do so! Ask Dont think a successful reef is kept by Snake oils and filter changes... Get ur hands wet..
ok, I think we need a new topic.... the "rose garden anemone tank"

I was shocked when this guy posted about him....

I have no clue what DSB means... lol...

But in the end of the video he tests his levels, no nitrate. He has no bad algae. The Rose bubble anemone multiplied from just one or two, there are now over 100 in the aquarium. There are a bunch of Zoanthids as well. It's a 500 Gallon 3/4 Round Corner aquarium. He says there is around 2,000 yes 2k live rock in the tank!

I don't know, he has figured out something well all haven't and is, perfect balance and harmony in a reef, using a wet dry filter... to his advantage.

LA Fishguys, Episode 91 pt 1, Rose Garden Anemone Tank

LA Fishguys, Episode 91 pt 2, Rose Garden Anemone Tank

LA Fishguys, Episode 91 pt 3, Rose Garden Anemone Tank

LA Fishguys, Episode 91 pt 4, Rose Garden Anemone Tank

LA Fishguys, Episode 91 pt 5, Rose Garden Anemone Tank

LA Fishguys, Episode 91 pt 6, Rose Garden Anemone Tank

LA Fishguys, Episode 91 pt 7, Rose Garden Anemone Tank
he has a wet dry, trickle filter, bio balls, canister, AND a DSB!!! How in the WORLD!!!
sorry for that double reply. wasnt sure why the first didnt seem to stick. as for the round 500 tank guy... yup. overly complex. add this to remove this because this added that...
ok. i think i understand what Spanky is getting at. if you use phyto and dump it into the water column with the pumps off, the phyto is right there in the display in all of the light. it is able to uptake any phosphates that are in the water column. if you were to now turn on the skimmer all of these gorged phyto will hopefully get skimmed out. the problem is, that if any of them are not skimmed out and end up dying then they release not only the phosphates they come in with, but also those that they absorbed before dying. hence the comment about storing it and waiting then the phosphates would be off the chart.

any other interpretations?

dang, i feel like i am in a Literature class again.

G~
OK, I'm gong to take that out of my cheat sheet. After reading most of the stuff, it seems a bit ancillary.
let me get this straight in this thread since this is talking about how to reefkeep as easily as possible.

i believe i have never said that the only way you can run a successful reef is only if it is BB. the whole point of this thread is to show that in order to have a successful reef long term you need to take out the trash. you have to export as much waste as food going into the tank, nothing more. this thread and what i talk about are the easiest/least expensive ways i know to accomplish this and why what we have been told can make this difficult.

i only ask that people really think through what they are doing? does it make sense? does it defy the law of conservation of matter? if something is growing, it must be getting nutrients. find the nutrients and remove them. feed only the critters you want to keep. everything else will end up in the waste bin, hopefully the waste bin is easy to clean. the easier the waste bin is to clean the more likely you will clean it. just common sense.

G~
...And I think I need to add something to this effect.
We put stuff in our tanks. If it doesn't wind up as part of a critter or coral, we have to get it back out.
Or eventually, it will fill up the tank and there will be no room for fish and corals, or even water :)
i need to find some time to see those videos. i am a bit worried by that members posting about that information. with the descriptions of how those tanks are run, there is a lot of information missing.

i do however think that if i were running an aquarium business in LA and i did maintenance for the wealthy, i would put DSB's in all of the tanks. that way it is job security. they will always be calling for clean ups and the prices of the equipment for controlling the phosphates, it is a cash cow. i am sure the hobby aquarium industry is loving these videos. :(

G~
i have been reading this forum for the last 5 hours and im only on page 10 theres so many side shoots but im glad i did cuz i was under this fairy tail impression that DSB's are not to be touched so i haven't but now from reading im gonna do a major sand siphoning. thanks for such a great read.
i have been reading this forum for the last 5 hours and im only on page 10 theres so many side shoots but im glad i did cuz i was under this fairy tail impression that DSB's are not to be touched so i haven't but now from reading im gonna do a major sand siphoning. thanks for such a great read.
If you have 5+ hours of reading, that is more than I, but from what I have read, disturbing a deep sand bed can lead to grave consequences if not properly handled. PROCEED WITH CAUTION.
If you have 5+ hours of reading, that is more than I, but from what I have read, disturbing a deep sand bed can lead to grave consequences if not properly handled. PROCEED WITH CAUTION.
The surgeon is correct. If the sand bed is aged, it likely has a great deal of rotting organic matter in it. You don't want this floating around your tank. Use a gravel vac and try to insure that most of the nasty stuff leaves the system through the syphon tube. I would only do a small section at a time, until all of the sand is clean. Then you should be able to vacuum all of it at once without issue.

What grain size do you have?
it ocean direct so its ungraded but predominatly (sp.?) fine it has about 4 months of use on it the the sand is growing stuff down to about 1 in where the light stops penatrating
i need to find some time to see those videos. i am a bit worried by that members posting about that information. with the descriptions of how those tanks are run, there is a lot of information missing.

i do however think that if i were running an aquarium business in LA and i did maintenance for the wealthy, i would put DSB's in all of the tanks. that way it is job security. they will always be calling for clean ups and the prices of the equipment for controlling the phosphates, it is a cash cow. i am sure the hobby aquarium industry is loving these videos. :(

G~
the guy said its his personal tank I think....

anyways, my uncle is the same way, but his tank is ok, not quite that good, but he vacuums to heck outa that tank, also runs a canister he cleans every month and an RUGF, and feeds flake food...

now my uncle has some PO4, not real bad, but there is some...

I think its all about proper care, and using what you know... :read:
i agree with nate 100%. this is the Reef keeping made easy thread. the opposition would be mr. 50 gallon WC weekly with tap water-man. both can work. but my GOD i'd hate to work on all that stuff!
I spent a weekend watching all of the LA fish guys videos. all I have to say is he is very old fashioned and stuck in his ways. he swears by bio balls even for reef tanks. one thing I also noticed is that he doesn't seem to understand what is really going on in the tank. he really needs to read this thread it could really save him some trouble. but with all that said he does know what he's doing to a point, and he takes care of some beautiful tanks. though most of them are fish only.
Wow.... that was a lot of reading, and sleeping, and than reading ai gain..... i have learned alot, and mabey i will have to read again to absorb any that i missed the first 2 times..... i have to go make some changes to my system now..... :
-geting rid of the fuge
-possibly getting rid of the calcium reactor
-then mabey i can get rid of the bio pellets
Wow.... that was a lot of reading, and sleeping, and than reading ai gain..... i have learned alot, and mabey i will have to read again to absorb any that i missed the first 2 times..... i have to go make some changes to my system now..... :
-geting rid of the fuge
-possibly getting rid of the calcium reactor
-then mabey i can get rid of the bio pellets
+1 -geting rid of the fuge
+1 (go with quick lime in your top off) -possibly getting rid of the calcium reactor
+1 -then mabey i can get rid of the bio pellets

:beer: enjoy less work and a cleaner tank!
+1 agreed on all 3. i just removed all my sand using a gravel vac and lowes bucket with a drain port on top. made it real easy with continuous syphoning of the water as it returned to tank. no dumping every 2 minutes heheh. now to finish with my rock and plumbing for BB set-up. so far the wife likes. and thats a good thing.
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