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Sumpless and Proud
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My impending rant is in no way aimed at Tito...as he would have now way of knowing this or the background of some of the livestock he is selling...

One of my biggest pet peeves with the selling of items..especially livestock (mainly corals, liverock, etc.)...on the forum is this....

I hate it when I GIVE corals, etc. to people and they turn around and sell them. Makes me want to end my generosity...:angry:

I gave a number of items to rahre1...when he tore down his tank, he sold them to Tito...and Tito is now selling them to others.

I've also given a number of items to others in the club, only to see them for sale at a ridiculous price at FnP...for example...I gave a BTA with GSPs and zoos on the rock to a club member - who then sold it to FnP for an gigantic price (enough to get a free RBTA from them)...:mad:

While I understand that once something is given it belongs to the person it was given to, but it's a pretty ballsy move to sell it in the face of the giver.

This seriously makes me not want to trade or give things to newbies...I think that many of us have forgotten the generosity that was shown to us when we started out.

Has anyone else experienced this??? Does this irk others???

J.
 

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Premium Member
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Well its time to stop giving things away......Set it free, if it comes back to you it was ment to be!

R1 & tito are moving and have no way of keeping the stuff.
As for the other guy...the only problem i have it that they sold it to FnP.
If i get a gift, i do try and keep it, but sometimes a deal is to good to pass up.
 

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www.RMMAC.org Dreamer
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Jodi, you do hit on an interesting subject. I have never "sold" any corals. I have traded some, but generally I have always given away frags and other things for free. I have often wondered if I have attracted the "wrong" people by advertising things for "FREE". They tend to appear, take, and disappear. On the other hand, I have met some great people doing this. Now that I am cleaning up my tanks and getting ready to trade again, this topic becomes more important. (Yes I am really doing it; first dose of Flatworm Exit went into the 90 yesterday. Is a slow process to find the time and prepare the water changes)

I have a feeling that for the first time in my reef keeping I will be selling frags instead of giving them away free; with the exception of those I am close reef-friends with. I think I may try to start selling to the reef shop in Mantorville. Anyone else have any experience with this?
 

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Nothing was givin to me. I paid alot of cash for all the items. Oyam123 mentioned that I am moving and have no way to care for the items. I would rather sell the items here to someone I know would care for them instead of bringing them to the lfs. It would erk me if I gave out corals for free and then seen that person sell those for a profit. I would not care though if they traded it for something else. It sounds like your beef is with the ex-president.
 

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Sumpless and Proud
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Tito---like I said, the post wasn't directed at you...I was afraid you'd take offense...it was just seeing the stuff that I'd given rahre1 offered up for sale again that really got to me and triggered me speaking up...

I guess my point is that if I had to tear down my tank (God forbid)...I would offer the freebies back to the people they came from first before selling them (and advertising in the faces of those that gave me things)...

I also wouldn't accept the freebies if I knew that I'd be selling them in the near future...which seems to be the case with some items...

I've gotten really wary of the posts "New to the hobby and looking for freebies..."

Michael--let me know how things go with the place in Mantorville - that may be a new option for my overgrowth.

I'd much rather give stuff to people than sell it, but it looks like that is the only option if generosity is going to be taken advatage of...

Tito---where is A&P Aquatics???

Jodi
 

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www.RMMAC.org Dreamer
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I am not sure of his name but I have spoken to the owner (I think) a few times and in principal he has agreed to take corals for credit. I did this talking just before I became a recluse last year. I probably should contact him again before I stop by with a bag of corals ;) Have you worked with him before? I obviously I need to finish my "Tank Cleanup" before I do it but it would be nice to have a place to take excess corals to with out having to advertise and make time for pickups. An extra bonus would being able to avoid FnP
 

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Stella: I know it wasn't directed at me but I wanted my situation to be known. I dont want people thinking the corals I am selling were givin to me for free. A&P is the shop in Mantorville.

mjsandbe: I have done a decent amount of business there. I dont know what type of corals you would bring there but he only has pc's.
 

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Jodi, I understand your frustration with this. It would irk me no end! However, look on the bright side: your "gifts" generated a fair amount of money in the local economy!

Most of the people on the board now weren't around when I moved. I gave EVERYTHING away (2 90 gallon set-ups, a 46 bowfront set-up and a 40 gallon breeder set-up, all including livestock). I'm glad to see that you and Michael are carrying on with my generosity!

When this club was originally founded, it was meant to be a way people could trade things and experience, not a way to make money. Anyone who is truly interested in the hobby doesn't give a rip about the money they spent and is not interested in getting any of it back. The true concern of all dedicated hobbyists is the welfare of the animals we keep (along with the aesthetic addition to our homes of a well-kept reef tank!)

I would like to make a proposal to the club: posts that include "For Sale" be immediately deleted by the administrator but equipment and live stock trades be allowed. This will help prevent this situation from occurring again and will help keep the original intent of the club alive.
 

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Sumpless and Proud
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well said, Larry. I totally agree. I've taken a "pay it forward" attitude to this point - but the abuses that I'm seeing are ridiculous. Your generosity to the club a few years ago encouraged my own generosity...

I agree with your proposal to a point. I don't have a problem with selling equipment (for the most part). Most of the equipment sales have been due to upgrades that people have done with their systems.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Jodi
 

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I am always looking for a good deal......if i can buy something at a good price and sell it; then it gives me more money in my fish fund.
I have never taken a gun to some one and made them sell to me!
Its a way to feed the habit.....but i only do this with things i buy.
If some one is willing to sell, and we agree on a price....well then the item is sold and the owner can do with it what they wish.

I have sold things to others i have seen re-sold...Free Market Economy.

PS: Mj....I dont plan to sell it!...LOL
I also still have "FREE" damselfish...you can even re-sell them!
 

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Sumpless and Proud
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I guess if someone sells something...that is one thing...But don't line up when things are being given away and then sell it. That's one way to lose friends fast. Most of the original club members (me, Michael, Duane, et al) have been giving things away for years, trading, future trades, and whatnot. But recently, that has been being taken advantage of...and I believe we will be more cautious in the future.

I also think that trying to make money off of people who are supposed to "friends" and fellow club members is pretty low.

Since I've voiced my concern about people selling what was received for free has been addressed and stated that the generosity once shown will be gone (except to those good reef friends), I'd like to now address the issue of this forum being used like an auction house and see if anyone has ideas on how to rein it in a little bit.


J.
 

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Thaumoctopus mimicus
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I have netted a great deal of generosity from Michael, Dwayne, and others. Except for 3-4 corals that died, :( I still have everything I was given, though I have traded a frag or two.

I think there are three scenarios here:

1) Get something for free and sell it to somebody very quickly.

This is not nice and probably should get you taken off the "to give to" list. A trade is much less of an issue to me.

2) Selling a system.

This is a case where what you are really trying to sell is the equipment. If you can sell a system totally intact, it makes some sense to let the livestock go with it, IMO, as this is part of your incentive to get somebody to help you recoup some of your losses. A reef tank is a substantial expense and some people cannot easily afford to just give it away, though I have great esteem of the generosity of those who can do so.

I have far fewer problems with somebody who sells a whole system or sells corals they bought as a whole system than somebody who takes free corals and parts them out.

3) Sell corals after a long time / lots of growing

Politeness would probably be to offer a comparable frag back to the original owner if desired. However, 2 polyps of a LPS is not exactly the same as 22 polyps. That grown coral "ate" the new owners light, food, water changes, calcium, current, etc. It is not quite the same as just burning somebody for money.


I intend to give away corals once my tank is mature enough to have a lot of excess (and I have fewer flatworms), but I expect that would get me early dibs on frags from people I give to. If Michael or others who have gifted me want frags of similar value from my tank, they can have them. If someone burns me, I won't give to that person again. I have 2-3 softies ready to frag now
 

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www.RMMAC.org Dreamer
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Topic: How we use this Bulletin Board; for sales?

I am torn on the idea of blocking threads about things for sale. While I do not want Rochester Minnesota Marine Aquarium Club Forum to become a <st1 ="">SE MN</st1> salt water eBay I also really do not want to see too many restrictions placed on users of the forum. While I totally agree that commercial posts should be removed I am leaning toward the idea that personal offers for items for sale & trade should be allowed.
 

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Sumpless and Proud
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Actually, we could require that all sale posts be placed in the General Classifieds forum...and could put a notification here that referring people to the listing.

That way, the sellers could also reach a broader audience as well.
 

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Thaumoctopus mimicus
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Sales of used items are part of how newbies take better care of their corals and fish. It also helps existing reefers feel that their investments are a bit more liqiudatable.

I almost wish we could keep up to date lists of what people are wanting and what people have excess of and let them PM each other, but I can't think of a way to keep that from being a hassle.

Some people pay a lot of attention to the money aspect of this hobby. Others just like to look at pretty tanks. I don't think either is wrong, per se. I figure in 3-4 years I may end up attempting breeding livestock as a means of paying for my own hobby and getting not too expensive aquacultured stuff to others.

I don't want sales banished, but I do want the non-sales to be the main focus of the forum.
 

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Why would you do away with "for sale" posts? Isn't in the clubs best interest for members (new & current) to be able to buy good quality used equipment/livestock instead of going to the lfs and paying 2-3 times the price for equipment/livestock? I understand if it someone who has free loaded everything and turns around and sells. Don't punish everyone else for a few peoples mistakes. For those who do not know me I am very generous. I think Scott 3560, oyam123 and Stella can agree with that. Not to mention half of the posts in this forum are wtb's or for sale's :funny: .
 

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www.RMMAC.org Dreamer
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I think some thoughtful discussion and reflection should happen before any move is made.

The whole idea of RMAC was to bring local reef keepers together. I am not willing to ship anything, dry or live so the larger audience just hides me from those who may be willing to drive to my house. I think it would really affect how we interact as a group, and how we get things done. If I am in the market for local (non-commercial) "reef stuff", I want to look here, and if I want to personally sell, I want to post here.
 

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Sumpless and Proud
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Since my original thread has bloomed into the "sales on the board" topic, it really irks me that people who have never shown any interest in the club only appear to sell stuff...

The majority of postings in the past couple of months have been entirely related to sales.

Seems I'm pretty "irk-able" this Monday...maybe I should crawl back into my hole and shut my mouth...

Jodi
 

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like tito said.....at least we are talking.......some times a week can go with no new posts on the board.

what other things are irking you?.....new thread...LOL
 
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