[tims]

Cycle part 2


to continue on with the last Bi weekely discussion on the cycling of our tanks.

first part


tank is all set up, water, salt , Live rock, parameters are where they should be.
IS this the end of the cycle?

 

[crvz]

Per definition, probably. But that doesnt mean it's time to dump fish and coral in the tank. For each living thing that's added, the tank will have to adjust to the new bioload (adjust implying growing levels of bacteria to handle the new wastes), hence the notion of adding things slowly up front.

 

[tims]

So if levels are fine and the tank can hold a good amount of things, why cant i jsut add abottle of bacteria and add it all at once?

 

[crvz]

How many strains of bacteria are out there? If you can find a bottle of caribbean denitrifying bacteria, and know exactly how much more is required per added animal, I'd say give it a whirl, but just not in my tank .

But it's not that simple. What's likely going to happen is, upon adding an animal, the bacteria levels will surge, then partially die off (due to, for lack of a better term, starvation after the initial surge), and then level out to the appropriate state. So there is a bit of a cycle each time you add something. The amount added will dictate how big this surge will be.

 

[OneDummHikk]

Cycle part 2


to continue on with the last Bi weekely discussion on the cycling of our tanks.

first part


tank is all set up, water, salt , Live rock, parameters are where they should be.
IS this the end of the cycle?

From my reading, no. My water parameters leveled out where they should be and then I got my diatom bloom (Or at least that is what I think it is).

 

[crvz]

There will probably be a few algal blooms after the initial nitrogen cycle takes place. Fortunately wtih diatoms, they feed exclusively on silicates, so once their food source is used up they die off. In a new setup, I think silicates come from some slight "off-gassing" of the glass, maybe a bit in the substrate, new plastics, etc. Most of the time their food supply is quite short, and they'll pass within a month (if not quicker). However, if you have poor source water (something other than RO/DI that has silicates in it) or chose to use silica sand, diatoms can become more of a battle.

From there, it's not surprising to have a hair algae outbreak. This algae will consume some of the built up wastes in the substrate (usually rock) that wasnt removed through skimming or water changes during the initial cycle. Again, here, if you can keep the food source limited, it'll eventually die off. However, you have to be careful of your husbandry so that you don't over-introduce more wastes, or the algae may start to thrive. Depending on the quality of substrate used, hair algae will usually disappear after the first 3-4 months of setting up the tank. If it hasnt, you need to re-evaluate your habits of cleaning the tank.

 

[DevilBoy]

I am about 3 months post cycle now, and i never really got a diatom bloom or hair algae bloom is this normal?

 

[crvz]

I am about 3 months post cycle now, and i never really got a diatom bloom or hair algae bloom is this normal?

It can be, depending on the source of liverock and setup.

 

[tellycoleman]

If you have a 200gallon tank can you add a tang foxface and trigger 3-4 inches each at the same time and not get a noticable cycle?
What if you increase skimming?
what if you add those drops that they sell at petco that suppose to get rid of alll ammonia nitrates and nitrites?? couldnt I just add theses drops every 3 days and never worry about a cycle at all?
(not gonna do it just asking)

 

[OneDummHikk]

what if you add those drops that they sell at petco that suppose to get rid of alll ammonia nitrates and nitrites?? couldnt I just add theses drops every 3 days and never worry about a cycle at all?
(not gonna do it just asking)

Those drop bottles they sell at Petco are better labeled as "Snake Oil" as that is what they are. They aren't removing or converting nitrites/nitrates, they simply try to bind them chemically but it is still in the water. Better to wait the cycle out and not fool with snake oils.

 

[fish.freak]

Im not a huge fan of "cure all" additives its best to let the LR do its thing and then at the point where the initial cycle is done add a hardy fish or two like clowns, and then wait some more.

 

[frankandmaura]

So...a quick question about the cycle...

1. Should we keep our lights on?
- Does keeping them off help with deterring algae growth?

2. Should we skim wet or dry?

3. Is water temp a key to a good cycle?
- Is there a recommended temp?

 

[tims]

great questions!

hmm, lights..
that is sorta up to you. If you have Live rock that comes in with growth on it and you wan to try and save it, then you will need lights... the bacteria that is populating your tank does not need light. But many types of algae do need to have light to live.this includes several types of bacteria ( cyano)

skimming wet is a bit better in the longer run. you are remove more this way.

Temps should always be at normal tank running. you willnot be able to check or monitor your tank if you let it run at one temp then run it at another down the line

 

[fish.freak]

Some run actinics only as it will keep coraline growth, but inhibit algal blooms.

 

[frankandmaura]

Excellent thanks...

So...if anyone else is reading this thread , what is more desired (i.e. what do most people do) among the TRT members (lights on or off or is it just a matter of opinion) - do we take the chance on algae to keep some of the existing growth alive?

Another question...
Flow - right now I just have my return running (a Mag 9.5 torqued back a bit - it was adding microbubbles to the tank at full speed). Do I need more for now, or can it wait until I actually have creatures in the tank?

 

[fish.freak]

if you have flow run it, it will get the "poop loop" going, thus getting more detritus to your skimmer.

 

[OneDummHikk]

Excellent thanks...

So...if anyone else is reading this thread , what is more desired (i.e. what do most people do) among the TRT members (lights on or off or is it just a matter of opinion) - do we take the chance on algae to keep some of the existing growth alive?

Another question...
Flow - right now I just have my return running (a Mag 9.5 torqued back a bit - it was adding microbubbles to the tank at full speed). Do I need more for now, or can it wait until I actually have creatures in the tank?

I am reading it. It took me three days to get the thread re-started

I cycled mine with the lights on. Not sure why other than I wanted to try to mimic what was going to happen after it cycled. To me, if you change the lighting, the flow, anything after it cycles, then you are apt to go through a mini-cycle or a full cycle. Much like adding fish. You are changing the environment and it has to adapt. If you start out as close as you can to the finished environment, then the less likely a mini-cycle is to happen. At least that is my thoughts.

Same thing with the flow in the tank. When I set my 90 up in the next few weeks, it will have the lights, the rocks, and the PH's in it when it starts the cycle. That way I don't go through mini-cycles as I add them. It may be the wrong way or may be just wrong thinking on my part but I don't think it is.

I have to break down my 12G nano in the next few weeks to add an overflow, return, and a CLS to it and when I set it back up, it will have lights, rocks, flow, everything except livestock in it when it cycles again.

 

[fish.freak]

I disagree Randy adding or removing flow should not cause a cycle, only introducing dying or decaying matter or adding something that poops should cause a cycle.
PS when you break down your 12, if you put its contents in a Rubbermade container with a powerhead and a heater you shouldnt see much in the way of a cycle.

 

[OneDummHikk]

I disagree Randy adding or removing flow should not cause a cycle, only introducing dying or decaying matter or adding something that poops should cause a cycle.

I don't have a problem being wrong But, when I wrote that, I was thinking about a scenario where you have a BB tank, with no flow on the floor. You cycle the tank, stabilize it, then add a CLS or PH's directed at the base of the rocks. Wouldn't that cause some sort of mini-cycle by stirring up the detritus that would be under the rocks? Or, am I over thinking it?

Part of the reason I harrassed tim about this thread was there are a lot of things I don't understand about the cycle

Question: The only thing in my tank are 2 mushrooms and 3 zooanthid polyps. If the tank cycled - or when it finishes - if everything in the tank is photosynthetic and no food is introduced, what keeps the cycle going?

I copy/pasted your PS comment to my nano thread
http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1287473#post1287473

I don't want to hijack this thread and would like to keep the nano stuff together so I can find it.

 

[aquawolf]

I was thinking about a scenario where you have a BB tank, with no flow on the floor. You cycle the tank, stabilize it, then add a CLS or PH's directed at the base of the rocks. Wouldn't that cause some sort of mini-cycle by stirring up the detritus that would be under the rocks? Or, am I over thinking it?

I think you are over thinking it but only a little. The fact is the detritus is already in the tank. Stirring it up is not going to cause any more harm than leaving it lie in one spot on the bottom is. You are not adding more dead stuff that the bacteria cannot process at this time, you are just moving it around some.

You are better off to have the flow running so you can make any needed adjustments to ensure the detritus is getting picked up off the bottom and going through the overflow and off to your skimmer.

I hope that makes sense.