[ckreef]

Did everyone read the post about the Newnan school asking the club for a donation to help upgrade their reef to a 120 ????

I personally think we as a club should give a small donation. Helping foster a reef tank in a very public place of learning like that will only foster future reefers. Plus maybe we could talk them into letting us have a meeting at the school one month. And we might also get our name on a tank plaque.

Kimberly thought that we should ask the members to vote on this since it's an out of ordinary thing for the club to do w/ money collected from dues.

I propose we have a vote in the members only section w/ three choices.

1) $100 donation
2) $200 donation
3) No donation

Any thoughts ????

 

[Rick O]

I think we should first confirm if it's legit. The guy didn't ask for help with supplies for the tank he wanted $$$. I would rather donate something like salt or hardware if we even do that.

 

[MyReef]

I agree with Rick...let's find out the scoop and offer time, resources, or dry goods....money is too easily mishandled.....

 

[ckreef]

Well I agree we need to check this out --- but if it is a legit situation then I think a $$$ donation would also be approiate. He is trying to upgrade to a 120 gal so he probably needs large ticket items rather than general supplies.

Maybe somebody could volunteer to research this and figure out if this is really a legit request. Maybe even visit the school and take a peek at their current reef. If this is legit he should easily be able to provide proof of his upgrade plans especially considering this is a school and all the red tape he must be going through in order to get everything approved.

Either way we should check this out and if legit we should help out in some form or another.

 

[Lifestudent]

I will contact Ken Davis, a BOD membber of the Atlanta Area Aquauatic Assoc. He mentioned that his club donated $100 to this school when I asked him earlier this week about insurance related to his club's activities.

I think donating frag/supplies would be more appropriate than just $, but I do think that donating $ may also be an option.

I believe that we do need to widen our educational sphere of influence and contact.

I also think that maybe a "traveling slide show" for school age kids would be good. But that's another topic.

Bob

 

[Lifestudent]

Discussion with Science Teacher Robert Lutz

FYI - Last night I talked to Robert Lutz and he appears to be legitimate.

Conclusion:
I believe that we should support him financially one time and eventually with frags when the new tank is up. He appears to be legitimate.

Background discussion:
The current 75g reef system is 4 yrs old and they are outgrowing this system.

In the past, he has received donations from Kent (via Ian Poole and apparently Don/Doug [sales rep] also knows and has helped this school tank) and from Aquarium Systems (with Instant Ocean and Reef Crystal salt donations).

He has currently raised several hundred dollars for the purchase of a 120 g stand, tank and canopy. The current 75 g is already outfitted with the proper equipment to handle upgrading to a 250.

He wants a bigger tank for more depth for a larger sandy bottom for low light corals and also for more fish.

He's been in the hobby for 4 yrs and has received past support from the PTA, "Yamaha", Kent and Aquarium Systems and very recently the BOD of the Atlanta Area Aquarium Association approved donating $100 to him even though his tank is a reef tank (I've confirmed this with discussions with Ken Davis and Mark Powell).

2-3 Middle School kids are responsible for maintaining the tank. Robert oversees a 7th grader instructing a 6th grader about proper feeding, care and maintenance.

He incorporates the reef tank in his science instructions:
* to 7th graders he uses it to teach Life Sciences
* to 8th graders he uses it to teach Oceanography and also light wave behaviour (e.g. Diffraction grading)

It is in a very visible location (main entryway) while located along the library glass wall. It is viewed on both sides and has LR in the center of the tank.

He has LPSs (e.g., galaxia and bubble coral) and a few SPSs (e.g., montiporia [sp?]), but primarily has soft corals (e.g., zooanthids). There are 4 110-w VHOs powered by an Icecap: 2 actinic, 2 50/50s.

The system also has a 20g refugium with macro algae and a seahorse.

He has his own reef tank at home and keeps things separate.

Since he lives near the school, he plans to continue to maintain the current 75g tank through the summer just as he has in the past while he gathers the funds for the 120. He plans on buying the 120 and doing the upgrade this summer while school is closed. Once the 120 is in place, he will transfer the equipment and livestock into the 120. The tank currently has a yellow tang, kole tang, hawkfish, neon goby, false perc, engineer goby, pajama cardinal and a yellow chromi along with the above corals.

He is currently seeking monetary donations for buying the 120. In addition, he'd like a few more powerheads (1200) and another ballast to have 2 sets of light [rather than all 4 that come on together] so that it can mimic daylight gradually increasing and decreasing.

He's also willing to trade frags to increase the diversity. He has fragged the galaxia 4 times which now are baseball sized frags.

I sent him an email about the current ARC thread regarding Jenn buying a customer's 120.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns regarding what I discussed with Robert Lutz.

****** End of Background discussion with Robert Lutz ******

Personally, I'd like to see us support an effort like this on the northern or northeastern side of Atlanta since that's where the majority of the members reside, but since I know of no other similar effort, I'll support this educational project.

I also agree with William that the membership should vote on this since this borderlines the normal scope of the BODs. It's in our scope since it promotes education, but it's somewaht outside of our scope since it's promoting/benefiting folks outside our membership.

I'd also like to see us do something like this (i.e., maintain a reef tank) in Garden Eden if we make that our permanent location, but that's another discussion.

Bob

 

[robsweet]

For what it's worth, Bob, I agree with your assessment. Any reason we can't vote on this at next month's meeting?

 

[ckreef]

As I stated earlier I think we should have a vote in the members only section. Paste in the background info Bob just gave us then give three voting options

1) $200 donation
2) $100 donation
3) no monitary donation

This is what we are suppose to be about so lets put our money where our mouth is (so to speak). Well at least let the members decide.

Using the members only section and letting the vote ride for a week or two should allow the most number of members to vote and each can only vote once. Using the forum will just give this more member coverage than voting at the meeting.

Thanks Bob for doing that wonderful background check on this.

 

[Rick O]

Please keep in mind that membership income has slowed down quite a bit over the last month and that any near future new members will be paying a reduced rate. Also there are expenses that BOD members need reimbursement for that I will be paying out soon. That and we still have some tentative speaking engagements that we will need seed money for.

I'm all for helping out where we can but we are a first year club and we really don't have funds to use in this way.

JMNSHO

 

[Rick O]

One more thing.... This should be a BOD decision. The general membership is not involved in how we spend the clubs money as well as they are not responsible for making sure there is enough money to take us through the end of the year.

 

[JennM]

One more thing.... This should be a BOD decision. The general membership is not involved in how we spend the clubs money as well as they are not responsible for making sure there is enough money to take us through the end of the year.

I totally agree, however, some sort of concensus or poll isn't a bad idea, to see how they feel about it.

I got a call from Bob Lutz, regarding the 120 private (nightmare) sale I was trying to help out with (note to self, never try that again...OY!), I didn't have time to chat, as I had a store full of people...

IMO the BOD should decide if a donation is in order, then how much they propose to donate -- that is where the "decision making" is regarding amounts and budgeting (we really REALLY should have a budget...)

Then, I think it would be appropriate, even if not legally necessary, to have the membership vote on it in the members only forum. That way the membership are involved in the process, but don't have all kinds of control that was delegated to the BOD by way of elections. What if the majority of people thought it was a bad idea? Call the question this way: We have been approached by XXX for a donation. The BOD feels that a donation of $$$ would be appropriate. Are you in favour or opposed to this donation? And leave it at that. Set the poll, set the time. The motion is either carried or defeated, everybody has a "say"...

As a member, I would appreciate a "say" in where the money goes, I think this would be good "PR" between BOD and the general membership.

JMHO

Jenn

 

[Rick O]

We've had this discussion before, about what the BOD's job is. Where do we draw the line. Do we poll the membership when choosing a meeting location, or topic? When choosing who we'll invite to be a guest speaker? Most of the membership doesn't care about club business. How many non BOD hung around after the last meeting for the BOD meeting?

 

[JennM]

I'm not at all challenging what the BOD's role is -- please re-read my post. I don't see any need for the membership to have to know about operating costs, or other day to day housekeeping issues. However, when it comes to *discretionary* spending, I think it's good business to at least let the membership in on it -- that is THEIR money we're proposing to give away, and they receive nothing in return for it.

In my years in service organizations, we adopted certain causes and budgeted each year for them, and those things were automatic and the members were never advised, except in the treasurer's report monthly. However, once word gets around that we are a funding source, everybody with a cause is going to want money, and I think the membership should have some say in how those discretionary monies are spent.

Mark my words, soon we'll be getting letters every week for this eco-cause and that one. Hence the importance of a budget and the importance of supporting causes that matter to our members.

Again, JMHO.

Jenn

 

[MyReef]

I am still trying to sort all of this out....I still am against a monetary gift. I would rather donate something else...time, dry goods, etc... If we really want to educate, we can help setup or maintain the tank or something of that nature....even if we donate enough salt for a year or something of that nature, to me is better than $. IF they scoff at receiving dry goods and only want money, then they are not as in dire need as they are letting on.....To me monetary donations get lost in the shuffle, but if we donated a piece of hardware, then everytime they used it or looked at it, they would think of ARC....JMHO

 

[Rick O]

that is THEIR money we're proposing to give away, and they receive nothing in return for it.

Nope. That's the Atlanta Reef Club's money. ARC is their club and they put their faith in the BOD by way of a vote to manage and run the club.

Mark my words, soon we'll be getting letters every week for this eco-cause and that one.

That doesn't bother me, I throw away junk mail every day.

 

[JennM]

Nope. That's the Atlanta Reef Club's money. ARC is their club and they put their faith in the BOD by way of a vote to manage and run the club.

That doesn't bother me, I throw away junk mail every day.

I'm not trying to start a fight here... but if the club is about the members... I'm only offering what I learned in 13 years in service clubs. If you choose to discard it, so be it, but I am offering my suggestions in the spirit of helpfulness based on what I've seen.

Suggesting that the BOD has absolute power scares me a bit.... been there and seen that too with clubs.... but suit yerself. If you all don't care what others think...

I was under the impression that the entire BOD was favouring a monetary donation. Clearly I was mistaken, so my suggesting calling for any member input is putting the cart before the horse. I'll defer to Andy to call an appropriate vote on the second forum, and see where that goes.

For what it's worth, I agree with Andy, but I'd certainly respect what the majority of BOD vote with -- but again, if there is disagreement here, I'm wondering what the membership thinks. Perhaps the membership has something(s) to donate?

Jenn

 

[Rick O]

Suggesting that the BOD has absolute power scares me a bit.... been there and seen that too with clubs.... but suit yerself. If you all don't care what others think...

I never knew this job was going to be so painful. I didn't get into this to argue with you all the time. Do what you want to. I don't give a chit anymore.

 

[JennM]

I'm not trying to argue. I said that... clearly you "hear" me a different way than I'm speaking. I am beginning to wonder Rick, what I've done to wrong you, since you seem to take a personal offence to anything I say anymore.

I'm not the only person in this thread that made the same suggestion about member input -- Charles posted that the members should have a say on page one. Rick, even you suggested that an equipment donation might be better, earlier on in the thread. Clearly this is still an item that's up in the air.

I've been told numerous times, and by numerous people, even those with whom I've disagreed, that my opinion is valued here. So I'm offering it. Take it, leave it, the board is free to choose their own path -- I'm simply offering up what I've learned, based on experience with other clubs in the past, and if I can save this club some of the headaches that I saw in the others, that is a good thing. I don't understand why you perceive that to be threatening or offensive - it's simply an offer of HELP. It's not me that's trying to make this into a fight -- it's you. You're putting a tone into this that isn't there. I'm one non-voting person - I have no power.

I'm sorry if my input offends. But since this discussion was placed into a forum which I (we, the non BOD committee members) can see, I assume it was meant for my (our) eyes. Feel free to take it to the other forum and rip on me all you want.

Jenn

 

[wasabi]

i think a membership vote on this issue would be a great way to initiate some interest in the bod. i dont know where the club stands financially so i cant offer an opinion on a donation. Jenn you stated "I'm not at all challenging what the BOD's role is -- please re-read my post. I don't see any need for the membership to have to know about operating costs, or other day to day housekeeping issues". i dont agree with this i really think there should be a published account of the groups funds and expenditures for all to see. this should be a major deciding factor in any donation decision.

 

[JennM]

Curtis, for clarity, since you weren't privvy to the prior discussions about this -- it's not a matter of transparency, that is a given, if we present a treasurer's report each month. Expenses are detailed and noted. What the difference is, is that for operating costs, we don't seek the approval of the general membership on every detail -- that is what the BOD is for. Items such as IRS filings, incorporation fees, postage, supplies for name badges etc, are approved solely by the BOD and when reimbursed they will be noted in the minutes at the general meeting, and the receipts/ledger is available to anybody who wants to know. Those are not discretionary expenditures, they are necessary ones, and the elected BOD was entrusted with those things when they were voted in. This is what I refer to as "housekeeping". We'll have to have the books audited at the end of the fiscal year, but that's another issue - one I've skirted briefly, but one that doesn't need to be addressed just now.

The issue here is a donation -- in which case I'm absolutely in favour of the membership having a say in whether or not we do this. I get the feeling that my point about the different types of expenditure (housekeeping vs. "donation") is being missed by some.

Again, the importance of a budget (or lack of one...) comes into play here. If we had a percentage of our income designated for discretionary donations (even a guesstimate), this issue would be a lot easier to deal with. I realize in the first year it's hard to do, but given that we have a sum of money, and intend to spend some on Anthony Calfo, that leaves a remainder that could be used for other causes and "seed money" for next year.

I also agree that a membership input will spark some interest by general membership in BOD issues. Empowering the members may give them a bit of interest in pursuing other endeavours within the club.

Jenn