I am seriously considering getting a new either 20 gallon high or 25 gallon regular tank. Both tanks have the same length and width dimension as my current tank, so I can still use my homemade canopy and stuff. Right now my 15 gallon is about 12 inches high, the 20 gallon high is 16 inches, and the 25 gallon is 20 inches. If I get a new tank, I think I am going to dump my powerheads and emperor filter and try to do an overflow/fuge setup. Basically I'm lost here. ANYTHING anyone has time to explain to me or suggest to me or any help at all you can give me would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks as always guys!
New tank? Few questions.
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What exactly are you wanting to know? I would still keep a powerhead in the tank. In addition to the return from the fuge.
I'm not exactly sure, but do they even make a little fuge for a tank like that? Is it something worth doing? Will a setup like that filter 'better' than the emperor setup I have now? How do you plumb something like that? I guess I'm just kind of lost... I know I'm asking alot, haha, I can figure most of it out, basically what I'm asking is do you think its worth doing something like this on a little tank, or should I just stick w/ the emperor setup I have now that seems to be working fine.
even on a little tank a sump can help.
1. it will provide more water volume, thus making your tank just a little more stable.
2. it will be more forgiving (small changes, a single fishing dieing, stuff like this will have less of an overall effect than in a 15g).
3. it will give you a place to put your filters, heaters, top-off (if you choose).
4. You can plumb it to make water changes super easy (no more syphon!!!!)
5. You will get alot more movement, helping to cool, and oxygenate your water.
6. This could be good or bad. You will get more evaporation, which will allow you to dose more Kalk if you are dosing.
7. A sump will make it easier to incorporate a refugium if you choose.
As for technical questions there are 100's of ways to do it. Let us know what you are wanting to accomplish, and there are many people to give you many ways to accomplish it.
Dave
1. it will provide more water volume, thus making your tank just a little more stable.
2. it will be more forgiving (small changes, a single fishing dieing, stuff like this will have less of an overall effect than in a 15g).
3. it will give you a place to put your filters, heaters, top-off (if you choose).
4. You can plumb it to make water changes super easy (no more syphon!!!!)
5. You will get alot more movement, helping to cool, and oxygenate your water.
6. This could be good or bad. You will get more evaporation, which will allow you to dose more Kalk if you are dosing.
7. A sump will make it easier to incorporate a refugium if you choose.
As for technical questions there are 100's of ways to do it. Let us know what you are wanting to accomplish, and there are many people to give you many ways to accomplish it.
Dave
You can use your 15 gal as a fuge if you build your own stand -otherwise it may not fit in a cabinet. I use the lifereef overflow and like it. www.lifereef.com . Or you can DIY your own.
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1. it will provide more water volume, thus making your tank just a little more stable.
! & 2 are the same stated differently
2. it will be more forgiving (small changes, a single fishing dieing, stuff like this will have less of an overall effect than in a 15g).
3. it will give you a place to put your filters, heaters, top-off (if you choose).
4. You can plumb it to make water changes super easy (no more syphon!!!!)
You can do the same to a tank.
5. You will get alot more movement, helping to cool, and oxygenate your water.
That depends on the pump vs the filter. The Emperors give plenty of Oygenation. Second it does not run dry and burn up the motor from the evaporation.
6. This could be good or bad. You will get more evaporation, which will allow you to dose more Kalk if you are dosing.
Bad if the level drops when you are not home. I just removed a sump set up for a customer. Water level dropped. Pump overheated. Actually had flames coming out from his cabinet. If the smoke dectors did not go off, it would have burned the whole building down.
Other side is when you lose power, a lot of sumps have flooded the floor.
7. A sump will make it easier to incorporate a refugium if you choose.
This is in my opinion the only reason for useing a sump, if it is a refugium.
Ray
! & 2 are the same stated differently
2. it will be more forgiving (small changes, a single fishing dieing, stuff like this will have less of an overall effect than in a 15g).
3. it will give you a place to put your filters, heaters, top-off (if you choose).
4. You can plumb it to make water changes super easy (no more syphon!!!!)
You can do the same to a tank.
5. You will get alot more movement, helping to cool, and oxygenate your water.
That depends on the pump vs the filter. The Emperors give plenty of Oygenation. Second it does not run dry and burn up the motor from the evaporation.
6. This could be good or bad. You will get more evaporation, which will allow you to dose more Kalk if you are dosing.
Bad if the level drops when you are not home. I just removed a sump set up for a customer. Water level dropped. Pump overheated. Actually had flames coming out from his cabinet. If the smoke dectors did not go off, it would have burned the whole building down.
Other side is when you lose power, a lot of sumps have flooded the floor.
7. A sump will make it easier to incorporate a refugium if you choose.
This is in my opinion the only reason for useing a sump, if it is a refugium.
Ray
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A significant part of the equation that CT didn't mention is that his tank is run off fresh ocean water... His tank drinks off milk from the teet...
I'd definately add the 15 as a fuge... if for nothing else, for increased volume and a place to grow some pods and macro-algae.... ya may even want to throw a seahorse in there...
I'd definately add the 15 as a fuge... if for nothing else, for increased volume and a place to grow some pods and macro-algae.... ya may even want to throw a seahorse in there...
Ray,
Sorry I couldn't respond last night as well, i wasn't in the best of spirits.
Codetoad mentioned that he was "completely lost" and wanted to know if they "even make a little fuge for a tank like that". All I was trying to do was explain to Codetoad the beneficial features that people seek sumps and fuge's for.
It appears that you have had some very bad experiences with sump set-ups. As for the flooding, the chances of this happening are greatly reduced with a Reef Ready tank. I should have stated in my first post that the only way I would ever feel comfortable doing this, is with a reef ready tank, as the complications of using a syphon overflow can be overwhelming. Also I would only feel comfortable having enough room in my sump to accomodate the water over my overflow. I appologize to CodeToad for not making these two points in my initial observation. It was irresponsible of me to point out only positive points on a subject to a person who had already stated they were "lost". Sorry Coadtoad anything you do in a tank will have positives and negatives...
I was not trying to lead Codetoad into something dangerous or even deadly as your fire story shows can happen, only explaining the reasons people want sumps, as I believe the majority of reefers that I have spoken too not only want a sump, but want larger areas for more equipment/dosing/feeding etc.
Lastly I think it is obvious that you can keep your heaters pumps skimmer and heck even a refugium inside your tank if you chose too. There might not be enough room for fish or corals, and it may not be appealing to the eye but it can be done. In fact it sounds like Codetoad currently has his tank set-up in this manner (all equipment in tank/ontank), I was merely pointing out the positives.
I don't want this message to come off wrong, or make it look like a flame, I just want to make sure Codetoad knows that although there are risks involved in keeping a sump, most reefers (in my opinion) believe the benefits of these outweigh the risks. I haven't been on this forum long, and I don't want a reputation for someone who gets defensive everytime thier point of view is questioned, but I did want to make sure, for Codetoads sake, that it was understood that I was only attempting to be helpful, and that none of my points were made out of ignorance, or to lead anyone in the wrong direction.
Dave
Sorry I couldn't respond last night as well, i wasn't in the best of spirits.
Codetoad mentioned that he was "completely lost" and wanted to know if they "even make a little fuge for a tank like that". All I was trying to do was explain to Codetoad the beneficial features that people seek sumps and fuge's for.
It appears that you have had some very bad experiences with sump set-ups. As for the flooding, the chances of this happening are greatly reduced with a Reef Ready tank. I should have stated in my first post that the only way I would ever feel comfortable doing this, is with a reef ready tank, as the complications of using a syphon overflow can be overwhelming. Also I would only feel comfortable having enough room in my sump to accomodate the water over my overflow. I appologize to CodeToad for not making these two points in my initial observation. It was irresponsible of me to point out only positive points on a subject to a person who had already stated they were "lost". Sorry Coadtoad anything you do in a tank will have positives and negatives...
I was not trying to lead Codetoad into something dangerous or even deadly as your fire story shows can happen, only explaining the reasons people want sumps, as I believe the majority of reefers that I have spoken too not only want a sump, but want larger areas for more equipment/dosing/feeding etc.
Lastly I think it is obvious that you can keep your heaters pumps skimmer and heck even a refugium inside your tank if you chose too. There might not be enough room for fish or corals, and it may not be appealing to the eye but it can be done. In fact it sounds like Codetoad currently has his tank set-up in this manner (all equipment in tank/ontank), I was merely pointing out the positives.
I don't want this message to come off wrong, or make it look like a flame, I just want to make sure Codetoad knows that although there are risks involved in keeping a sump, most reefers (in my opinion) believe the benefits of these outweigh the risks. I haven't been on this forum long, and I don't want a reputation for someone who gets defensive everytime thier point of view is questioned, but I did want to make sure, for Codetoads sake, that it was understood that I was only attempting to be helpful, and that none of my points were made out of ignorance, or to lead anyone in the wrong direction.
Dave
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68 Posts
Hi Dave,
No problems, I just write in a dry maner of fact style. It does get people hot sometimes; but that is not my intention.
I do not take your answer as a flame; just a good discussion from two different points. I believe a good discussion will do a great deal to help Codetoad.
While most in the hobby use sumps, I am one who no longer does. I dislike both the hang on the back over flows and the built in ones ( reef ready tanks).
"Lastly I think it is obvious that you can keep your heaters pumps skimmer and heck even a refugium inside your tank if you chose too. There might not be enough room for fish or corals, and it may not be appealing to the eye but it can be done."
I keep the heaters in the tank. I use closed loop systems for circulation in some tanks. I use Emperor 400 filters, and HOB skimmers. I overfeed by almost everyones standards, and have tanks that stay pretty clean of algae. I have a tank set up over 3 years and have cleaned the inside glass maybe 6 times. Easy to maintain, LR hides the heaters and the black intakes hide well behind the LR also against a black back. My heaters and intake tubes take up less room than a reef ready overflow does.
My personal opinion is that if a sump is not a refugium do not have one. That comes from 40+ years as a hobbyist and 3+ years in the busness.
Ray
No problems, I just write in a dry maner of fact style. It does get people hot sometimes; but that is not my intention.
I do not take your answer as a flame; just a good discussion from two different points. I believe a good discussion will do a great deal to help Codetoad.
While most in the hobby use sumps, I am one who no longer does. I dislike both the hang on the back over flows and the built in ones ( reef ready tanks).
"Lastly I think it is obvious that you can keep your heaters pumps skimmer and heck even a refugium inside your tank if you chose too. There might not be enough room for fish or corals, and it may not be appealing to the eye but it can be done."
I keep the heaters in the tank. I use closed loop systems for circulation in some tanks. I use Emperor 400 filters, and HOB skimmers. I overfeed by almost everyones standards, and have tanks that stay pretty clean of algae. I have a tank set up over 3 years and have cleaned the inside glass maybe 6 times. Easy to maintain, LR hides the heaters and the black intakes hide well behind the LR also against a black back. My heaters and intake tubes take up less room than a reef ready overflow does.
My personal opinion is that if a sump is not a refugium do not have one. That comes from 40+ years as a hobbyist and 3+ years in the busness.
Ray
Thanks Ray,
I sooo wish that I had had a tank that was drilled for closed loop. But nobody in this area is willing to drill, and im afraid to. Now would be the time, but Im afraid its not going to happen.
Ill get back to you in 40 years and we can compare notes.....maybe my way of thinking will change by then!
Dave
I sooo wish that I had had a tank that was drilled for closed loop. But nobody in this area is willing to drill, and im afraid to. Now would be the time, but Im afraid its not going to happen.
Ill get back to you in 40 years and we can compare notes.....maybe my way of thinking will change by then!
Dave
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68 Posts
Hi Dave,
I use Arcylic tanks and have them drilled by the manufacter when they build them.
The one thing I've learned is a large part of the information past on as fact is garbage. One persons says something and it is pasted on. It then shows up in one book. Then everyone includes it in their book. Now it is considered fact, a must.
One of my favorites is about feeding. Most people would be shocked by the amounts of food I put in my tanks wikthout algae problems. Personal opinion from experience, Most Algae problems are from under feeding not over feeding. They clean up crews starve to death and cause more algae than the proper amount of food does. I've beenknown to feed tanks 5 or 6 times a day, large amounts. I do aquarium maintaince for a living. I want my tanks as easy to clean as possible, while being interesting with the varied life forms. I use 2 auto feeders on 125 gallon aquariums, set to feed 4 times a day each. I have one customer that likes to feed her own aq2uarium. A 125 in a day care center. She feeds 2 or 3 teaspoons of food 3-5 times a day. A very healthy aquarium.
Ray
I use Arcylic tanks and have them drilled by the manufacter when they build them.
The one thing I've learned is a large part of the information past on as fact is garbage. One persons says something and it is pasted on. It then shows up in one book. Then everyone includes it in their book. Now it is considered fact, a must.
One of my favorites is about feeding. Most people would be shocked by the amounts of food I put in my tanks wikthout algae problems. Personal opinion from experience, Most Algae problems are from under feeding not over feeding. They clean up crews starve to death and cause more algae than the proper amount of food does. I've beenknown to feed tanks 5 or 6 times a day, large amounts. I do aquarium maintaince for a living. I want my tanks as easy to clean as possible, while being interesting with the varied life forms. I use 2 auto feeders on 125 gallon aquariums, set to feed 4 times a day each. I have one customer that likes to feed her own aq2uarium. A 125 in a day care center. She feeds 2 or 3 teaspoons of food 3-5 times a day. A very healthy aquarium.
Ray
dave, where are you checking to get your tank drileld? the fish shops? or glass shops?
NONE of the LFS's in my area will touch a tank. but i found a glas shop that will do it. and it's only $8 per hole on the 75, and $6 per hold on the 20 and 29
go through the yellow pages, and call glass shops. the one i found actually said "glass cutting, drilling, etc..) i actually found about 4 different places, but this place was cheapest, and closest.
NONE of the LFS's in my area will touch a tank. but i found a glas shop that will do it. and it's only $8 per hole on the 75, and $6 per hold on the 20 and 29
go through the yellow pages, and call glass shops. the one i found actually said "glass cutting, drilling, etc..) i actually found about 4 different places, but this place was cheapest, and closest.
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