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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The "other" board is talking about the new Octo Xtreme, which has 3 models, the 160, 200, and 250 (the latter two looking like copies of the ATI Bubble Master 200 ($550) and 250 ($760)).

For $275, 325, and 475 these look like a great deal, especially since they use Sicce pumps (same ones used by ATI). I'm no guru, but the 160 (for tanks up to 100g) and the 200 (for 100-200g) look like monsters for the price.

http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_48



 

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Hmmmm...


Business abhors a vaccuum, looks like the competition is heating up.
 

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It looks like their 250 version only has one pump, though? The ATI BM250 has two pumps. The ATI BM200 only has one pump.

edit: nevermind, their photos are just off.. their descriptions say the $500 model will use two sicce meshwheel pumps
 

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the built in gate valve on the BM 250 is much cooler, but my air silencer isnt nearly as nice. LOL

it'll be interesting to see some input in action.

the entire inside bubbleplate and tubing is quite different from the BM's, although some say the BM is a pseudo bubble plate to begin with.



 

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Yeah, I must say, I am in love with the valve control on the ATI BM's... it is so nice to never have to get your hands wet and still be able to fine tune the skimmer.

I think these new skimmers might perform really nicely, though. One issue I have seen discussed is how turbulant the BM250 is -- all of that air and water mixing in such a small area. Those new skimmers actually give a wider mixing area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah, I must say, I am in love with the valve control on the ATI BM's... it is so nice to never have to get your hands wet and still be able to fine tune the skimmer.

I think these new skimmers might perform really nicely, though. One issue I have seen discussed is how turbulant the BM250 is -- all of that air and water mixing in such a small area. Those new skimmers actually give a wider mixing area.
Are you $300 in love with it? ;) I'm sure the ATI BM is better quality overall, but still 475 v. 760 is lot to pay extra when you have the same pumps. The quality of the acrylic and easier to use gate valve definitely improve durability and ease of use, but dont seem like they'd effect the performance in the end (if you have the same pumps and same body shape/setup).
 

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Are you $300 in love with it? ;) I'm sure the ATI BM is better quality overall, but still 475 v. 760 is lot to pay extra when you have the same pumps. The quality of the acrylic and easier to use gate valve definitely improve durability and ease of use, but dont seem like they'd effect the performance in the end (if you have the same pumps and same body shape/setup).
I think the proof will be in the pudding.

the skimmer is quite different in many ways.......I posted pics of that for you to see.

Who knows though......as king kong pointed out it may even work better WITHOUT that extra tubing and wider mixing area and justify your point even more.

Ill be interested to hear some true comparisons, as, like king kong.......I coulndt be happier with my BM 250 at the moment
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think the proof will be in the pudding.

the skimmer is quite different in many ways.......I posted pics of that for you to see.

Who knows though......as king kong pointed out it may even work better WITHOUT that extra tubing and wider mixing area and justify your point even more.

Ill be interested to hear some true comparisons, as, like king kong.......I coulndt be happier with my BM 250 at the moment
I agree...I'm not buying til I hear reports of its performance. I do see the differences now...kinda looks like they took some influence from the Bubble King skimmers.

For my upgrade to a 185, I'm debating between a BM 250 (maybe the Xtreme if it gets good reviews), and the Reeflo Orca 200. Leaning towards the Reeflo because I'm thinking I want to go external.
 

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All and all I love it! We need companies like this to keep the larger manufactures from controlling the pricing of the skimmer market. Personally I like the octopus line and if I was starting over, may consider one for my tank. I mean seriously, a skimmer is just a mathematically designed and engineered piece of plastic with a air injection method... There is no reason that we should be paying the prices of some of the top brands!
 

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All and all I love it! We need companies like this to keep the larger manufactures from controlling the pricing of the skimmer market. Personally I like the octopus line and if I was starting over, may consider one for my tank. I mean seriously, a skimmer is just a mathematically designed and engineered piece of plastic with a air injection method... There is no reason that we should be paying the prices of some of the top brands!

Im certianly not going to love it if it ends up performing as good or better than the BM i purchased 6 months ago :arg:
 

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I have a stupid question.
What's the purpose for the bubble plate? The description says it is to cut down on turbulence within the skimmer. Isn't turbulence within a skimmer a good thing? It seems to me that the bubbles would head straight to the surface after going through the bubble plate. Turbulence within the skimmer would increase contact time as the bubbles would have a more random path to the surface, correct? I am old school here so maybe there is a logical explanation that I am missing.
 

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EC- you want to keep turbulance to a minimum. turbulance keeps the smallest bubbles from being able to be evacuated out of the top of the skimmer. the more turbulance the greater the chance these microbubbles will be swept away by the current in the skimmer. the bubble plate is just a barrier in the skimmer keeping the newly injected air water mixture, which is very turbulent, in a confined area. the holes at the top allow the water to leave this confined area in a controlled manner, keeping the turbulence down to a minimum.

the perfect skimmer would be one that would not allow any bubbles to escape no matter how small. contact time is irrelevent if all of the bubbles are evacuated through the collection cup. :D

how big in diameter are these skimmers? they seem awfully short to be able to handle any real gph. why are skimmer manufacturers so obsessed with meshwheels. :( we do not need more bubbles, we need more flow. i feel that skimmer manufacturers are leading us in the wrong direction. now if those skimmers had 2 feed pumps then i think we will be getting somewhere. notice i said feed pumps and not recirc pumps.

G~
 

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Fly- i see yours has two feed pumps, but the first pictures do not. what size are those feed pumps on yours? they seem kinda small, or is it the scale with the skimmer that is throwing things off? it still only looks like your skimmer can process about 400gph.

we need skimmers that can process 800gph at a reasonable price, since most of us have at least 1" drains on our tanks. :(

G~
 

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Thanks Geoff. Now I understand. Basically it is due to the compact design of the skimmer. As you pointed out, these skimmers are short. Turbulence would send a great deal of the bubbles back into the sump. These skimmers would probably work well for someone with limited space, but I would want something that is a little more efficient. I'd rather just make room for a larger skimmer.
 

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Fly- i see yours has two feed pumps, but the first pictures do not. what size are those feed pumps on yours? they seem kinda small, or is it the scale with the skimmer that is throwing things off? it still only looks like your skimmer can process about 400gph.

we need skimmers that can process 800gph at a reasonable price, since most of us have at least 1" drains on our tanks. :(

G~
Im not sure exactlyy to be honest.......by just the way it feels I think you are probably right that with my two pumps running I am processing around 400 -500...probalby closer to 500. . that being said, I think many of the old schoolers think that becketts are the only way to go without seeing any of these meshwheels in action......that was true when I started in this hobby...but it simp;ly isnt true anymore, and how much water you are processing isnt as relevant either. I DO still believe you should roughly match your sump flow to your skimmers processing ability, but just becasue this flow rate may not be 800+ gph, that surely isnt a measurement of how good a skimmer is or what it can handle

here is 12 hours of skimming in a 1 gallon collection cup. This isnt normal day to day skimming....this was a few days after my crash and there was still a lot of organics in the water, but as far as proof is in the pudding......12 hours.....nearly 1/2 gallon of dark nasty crap........I pulled this much crap out of my tank at this rate for about 5 days following my little accident.

I dont skim as wet as I used to. I simply dont need to. I do skim a little wtter than this pic though...but not much

 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Im certianly not going to love it if it ends up performing as good or better than the BM i purchased 6 months ago :arg:
You could probably sell your BM for more to a brand name snob and buy an Xtreme with change leftover ;)

JK, there is no doubt the BM 250 is better, but most people cant afford a $550-750 skimmer. A 300-400 skimmer that still does the job is closer to most ppl's price range, and this one looks better than previous Octos or an ASM for example.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
EC- you want to keep turbulance to a minimum. turbulance keeps the smallest bubbles from being able to be evacuated out of the top of the skimmer. the more turbulance the greater the chance these microbubbles will be swept away by the current in the skimmer. the bubble plate is just a barrier in the skimmer keeping the newly injected air water mixture, which is very turbulent, in a confined area. the holes at the top allow the water to leave this confined area in a controlled manner, keeping the turbulence down to a minimum.

the perfect skimmer would be one that would not allow any bubbles to escape no matter how small. contact time is irrelevent if all of the bubbles are evacuated through the collection cup. :D

how big in diameter are these skimmers? they seem awfully short to be able to handle any real gph. why are skimmer manufacturers so obsessed with meshwheels. :( we do not need more bubbles, we need more flow. i feel that skimmer manufacturers are leading us in the wrong direction. now if those skimmers had 2 feed pumps then i think we will be getting somewhere. notice i said feed pumps and not recirc pumps.

G~

The pic is not accurate, the Xtreme 250 apparently comes with 2 Sicce pumps (just like the BM 250).
 
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