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Need Advice on Purchasing a Marine aquarium

3K views 31 replies 9 participants last post by  Thereefguy 
#1 · (Edited)
I am looking into buying a saltwater aquarium. I have been reading articles and forum posts, and it seems like it's hard work. I found one (150g glass) on CL which comes with a full set up, but I wanted to get some opinions from you guys. Here is what it comes with:
-some live sand (will need to buy more though)
-60g sump
--high powered lights
-octopus protein skimmer
-wave maker

I don't really know any more of the details, but I am supposed to go see it tmrw. He's also throwing in some salt mix, and a couple of more accessories. What should I be looking for before buying a tank? Should I do live rock, or bio balls? Is it more convenient to buy or mix your own saltwater? Would a 60g sump suffice? Again, sorry for the noob questions. Hopefully I wake up tmrw with some awesome input!
 
#2 ·
60gal is good... live rick 100 persent... no to bioballs at all 99.9 persent of people here will agree on that

210 gals of water volume will be great for water quality it will be easier to keep stable
I wouldnt use his live sand... starting with new sand will be best you dont want the old sand because it has detritus stuck in it...

I would recommend about a 3/4 of an inch sand bed since it is a lot easier to stir up and siphon .

What are you planning to do... fowlr or reef?


Water:
Conveniences is key then id say buy it from you lfs to save money mix it yourself

Do not use tap water to make youer own or for top offs you will fight an up hill battle...
If you dont have an ro/di unit spectrapure sells a factory referbished unit for 130 they are the gold standard

Hope I am not to jumbled
 
#4 ·
"High quality lights" you'll want to make sure what they are if their a big factor in the price. Most all lights are labeled that lol but most are sub par
 
#5 ·
Thanks James and Invic for your help! Here is some additional info that I got after speaking with him over the phone.
Lights are not led, but are used to help coral grow (he had a reef with fish tank). He is currently running the tank with one coral, small crabs, a sand starfish, and some snails. Has about 20lbs of live rock in the sump, he thinks the protein skimmer is a reef octopus diablo skimmer (unsure though). Aquarium also comes with 3 power heads for waves, a wave maker, a 55 gallon drum with a mixing pump, salt water mix(he said its the more expensive salt mix), magnet float for cleaning algae of glass, hydrometer, and magnet clip for seeweed to feed fish. He's also selling a uv filter/light.
He's also giving me buckets full of his saltwater, but he told me to buy 40-50g of premixed saltwater before adding his.And then to let the tank run for a week before adding fish.
What salt mix do you guys recommend? I'd rather pay extra for the salt mix if it'll make the maintenance easier. Is instant ocean good? What test kit(s) should I buy? I am planning on doing fowlr until I get used to doing the maintenance. My 2 yo son wants a clown fish, and my wife wants a seahorse, lol. I'm leaning towards 2 clown fish, 1-2 gobies, and a couple of damsels just to see if I can keep them alive. I don't want to buy expensive ones until I get the hang of things.

Everything that I mentioned above is 500, but he said he will work with me. He also said that the live sand that it has was the previous owners sand as well. If I don't get the sand, then I cannot take the sea creatures, right? Thoughts please...
 
#6 ·
For 500, that's a really good price. You don't need a UV sterilizer. And you don't need the old sand. If you really want the livestock i'd figure out a way to put the live rock and sand in the sump temporarily to keep the tank from cycling. That way you can put fresh dry sand in the 150 gallon display. You don't know how old his sand is so it could be almost loaded with nutrients. It'll be ok to use to prevent a cycle, but I wouldn't keep it.

A cycle takes about 3 weeks to 3 months depending on conditions. My first one on my 36 gallon system took a few months with no live rock. My 75 gallon took 3 weeks with premium quality live rock.

I wouldn't bother with his water either, no need to. Just buy a new bucket of Instant ocean salt and fill the tank and the sump up with fresh saltwater mix. There isn't any reason to use old water. It's not really worth it in my opinion. If your going with a Fowlr just get instant ocean, and if your going with a reef you can buy instant ocean reef crystals. There are other brads but they may be harder to find at local stores. Don't buy store brand (petco).

As for test kits, in order of accuracy you can go with the following, API, Seachem, Redsea, Salifert, Elos, LaMotte, and Hach. You'll probably see API, Seachem, Or Redsea at your local store. API will work fine for starting out, and should last you a while. Seachem is good, but takes time to get used to. I have Redsea and it's probably my favorite so far.
 
#7 ·
And just a bit of advice. Seahorses are a whole different ballgame.

On a scale of 1-10 in terms of maintenance and attention to details.

Freshwater is a 2

Saltwater Fowlr is a 5

Saltwater Reef is a 7+

Seahorses are an 8+

I had two seahorses. I really kept my old 36 gallon setup clean. At the end of it's 2 years of use I didn't have any serious algae problems and my Nitrates were under 5ppm. My seahorses didn't make it.. Even at the level I kept my tanks, it wasn't enough. They are a different animal.

If you want them, you need a species only system. Not too big, and not to small so you can watch the details closely.
 
#8 ·
Thanks Brassaxe...Is there any other chemicals/fluids that the aquarium will need besides instant ocean? I just found a red sea test kit for calcium magnesium, and alkalinity on Amazon for $41. I don't have the ro/di unit. I'm willing to mix my own water, but that means that i would have to by the ro unit, right? How much time/money do I save by buying the saltwater already mixed and ready to dump in the aquarium? I found an ro/di unit on craigslist for 140 obo (corallife pureflo 2). The reason I am leaning towards mixig my own water is bc he's giving me a 55g drum with a mixing pump. Thought one could use regular water and just use salt mix.
 
#10 ·
That's about what I paid for my Redsea kit. It's a really good kit if you're getting the Marine Care kit.

There are a ton of additives that people will try to sell you when you start out. You don't need hardly any of it for a Fowlr..

Here's what you need.

-Good water. RO/DI with quality salt mix, or purchased saltwater.
-A Good test kit.
-A Good filter (Live rock and Mechanical filtration).
-Good routine maintenance.
-Maybe a skimmer depending on the size. (55+ gallons)

-And Carbon. It's your choice whether to run carbon. I don't see a reason why not.


I will put this as simply as I can.. I've studied an unimaginable amount of things you can do with a Fowlr.. The above list is all I use.. My fish have never had ich, never gotten sick, and are always in good health. The only fish i've had die from disease were my Seahorses. And I attribute that to putting them into a tank with other fish, which made water quality control difficult.

Don't overthink things is my advice.

Also, you can just buy saltwater from your LFS. The non-franchise ones are better.. It'll be fine till you get an RO/DI and your own salt mix.. RO/DI water costs less than a few cents a gallon when you factor in filter changes. Salt mixes run about 30 cents a gallon. Get a Spectrapure if you get an RO/DI. I have an AWI, but after all the research I would go with a Spectrapure.

The chiller is something that you'll only figure out if you need once you've run the tank for a while. It all depends on your house temp, your type of pumps, your tank evaporation rate, your lights, etc etc etc..
 
#11 ·
Oh wait, the Redsea Kit you're talking about, you don't need if your starting out..

Get the Redsea Marine Care. It tests, Ph, Alkalinity, Ammonia, Nitrtite, Nitrate.. You'll need that one regardess of fish or corals.. Worry about the Magnesium etc etc etc later.. You'll for sure need Ammonia, and Nitrite to check your tank cycle. And Nitrate to check the condition of your tank.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Thanks again Brassaxe for the input. Over thinking is exactly what I have been doing bc of all the stuff that I have been reading on forums/articles online. I found someone nearby that sells live sand for $30/40 lbs and live rock at $1.75. You guys recommend buying sand/rock online?
Is there a hydrometer that I can leave in the tank so I can conveniently check it when I go and admire the aquarium?
Is $150 good for a new ro/di unit?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the skimmer the filter? A skimmer is included with the aquarium, but it's not a needle wheel skimmer. Are those skimmers better? Thanks again!

Forgot to add that he didn't mention anything about a heat source. You think that he may be using the lights as the heat?
 
#17 ·
Thanks again Brassaxe for the input. Over thinking is exactly what I have been doing bc of all the stuff that I have been reading on forums/articles online. I found someone nearby that sells live sand for $30/40 lbs and live rock at $1.75. You guys recommend buying sand/rock online?
Is there a hydrometer that I can leave in the tank so I can conveniently check it when I go and admire the aquarium?
Is $150 good for a new ro/di unit?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the skimmer the filter? A skimmer is included with the aquarium, but it's not a needle wheel skimmer. Are those skimmers better? Thanks again!

Forgot to add that he didn't mention anything about a heat source. You think that he may be using the lights as the heat?
There are many types of skimmers..

Needle wheel
Pinwheel
Venturi
Downdraft
Aspirating
Injector
ADCC

Or sometimes combinations of these..

Protein skimmers are a type of filtration. They remove Dissolved organics. Which is the bulk of what we want to remove in an aquarium. But they don't remove everything. You still need to remove some of the things a skimmer can't get. Like chemicals and larger particles.

You can buy live rock most anywhere. I would invest in high quality stuff. I got premium Fiji live rock from Liveaquaria for $145 for 45lbs including shipping. It's not cheap to buy online, but it can be less time since it was harvested.

Lastly, you do not need live sand.. At all.. The live rock will make the sand live. Don't waste your money.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Hey Brassaxe and the rest of thereeftank community, I wanted you guys to check my setup, tell me if I did something wrong or if I am missing anything. I currently have a heater down in the middle of the sump with some LR and seaweed. On the left with the red top is the Skimmer. In the middle (outside the sump) is the carbon filter with two hoses going into the middle of the sump. And on the right is the aquarium pump. Inside the tank is like 10-15 lbs of LR and the Livestock (coral, starfish, and some snails). I also have three power heads and some t5 Sun sytem tek light. Is it true that you need to only use the lights for about 3 hours once a week, and increase it the time every week to avoid, algae burn, I think? Thanks!

Here are a couple of pics that I took:




The pump side is empty bc I didn't fill the tank completely. I have to go buy more water tmrw. I don't have the system running.
 
#23 ·
Thanks NorthernIndianaReefa
Local Pet store told me about the lights. I currently just have saltwater running in the tank, with some snails, a coral, and some tiny starfish. How often should I switch out the carbon from the carbon filter? The previous owner had carbon bags wedged in the sump with some black sponges as well as the carbon filter right outside the sump.
What about the Skimmer? Should I do it every two weeks? The water is crystal clear now, and the salinity is good too. I took a sample of my water to the pet store, and they said it was good. My redsea marine kit should be coming in anytime now so I can check the water myself. How often should you top off water? Once a week? I live in LA, so the humidity is pretty low. I usually check that my water pump, carbon filter, and skimmer are running well, but not too sure what the squiggly line on the skimmer means. There is a knob that raises/lowers the bubbles, but I can't seem to keep it at the line for more than 3-4 min before it goes down. To clean the skimmer, do I just remove the top clear cup and rinse it clean?
This was a reef only aquarium, and this chemical was included called Kent Marin Garlic Xtreme for fresh or saltwater fish. Should I use it on fish food? What kinds of nutrients do you guys buy?

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/member.php?u=47008
 
#24 ·
Hey TRT, I'm back. Hopefully you guys can hrlp me out again with these questions. Sorry if they are kinda out of order.
Do you clean sump?
Would snails in sump help? Currently have a power head in sump (2 days).
How do you know if you have good ro water from your rodi unit?
How often do you clean/replace filter sock? Once a week?
Will Halloween sea urchin eat coralline algae?
Can I mix some black clown fish with my nemo clown fish and butterfly fish?
How to get coralline algae to grow? Some if the LR that I have has some coralline.
What kind of shrimps are good for clean up that are reef safe?
Once a week I check for:
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, and salinity. Am I missing anything?
I'm doing 15% water changes every 2 weeks.
What do you guys normally check for on the daily basis? I do temps in the mornings and evenings, account for my 3 fish, and that the water is topped off.
I know that the carbon bags need to be changed every month, but what about the carbon filter? How often go you replace it?
Thanks again for all the help.
 
#25 ·
Do you clean sump?
Yes, as often as you possibly can. Usually when you clean your tank.

Would snails in sump help? Currently have a power head in sump (2 days).
Nope. Unless the snails carry the detritus out of the sump and into the garbage. You want to get the phosphates and everything else out of your tank. Snails are just a really slow middle man that reprocesses it.. No snails.. Just vacuum.

How do you know if you have good ro water from your rodi unit?
TDS Meter.. Anything below 1 or 2 is usually acceptable, after that you ned to replace your filters.

I have an HM AP1, and it works great.

http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/ap1.html

How often do you clean/replace filter sock? Once a week?
Every few days to once a week at least. Its not hard to clean, so the more often the better.

Will Halloween sea urchin eat coralline algae?
Don't know

Can I mix some black clown fish with my nemo clown fish and butterfly fish?
Doubt it.. Clown fish don't get along well. Maybe someone else will know.

How to get coralline algae to grow? Some if the LR that I have has some coralline.
Don't worry about it.. If it grows, fine.. If not, fine.. You want balanced live rock. If your getting one thing specifically to grow, something else is loosing real estate and suffering. Eventually degrading water quality.

Once a week I check for:
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, and salinity. Am I missing anything?
Only if your dosing something.

I'm doing 15% water changes every 2 weeks.
What do you guys normally check for on the daily basis? I do temps in the mornings and evenings, account for my 3 fish, and that the water is topped off.
I do 25% once a week. If my Nitrate hits 10ppm then its 50%.. As long as its under 10 for a fowlr I know my tank is really nice and clean.. Daily I check my ATO.. This is all subject to personal experience, tank requirements, and other things.. You'll get a feel for it after a while.

I know that the carbon bags need to be changed every month, but what about the carbon filter? How often go you replace it?
Carbon is most effective for about 12-48 hours. They still work on a lesser level up to 4-6 weeks if its good quality. I change mine weekly. I use about a cup for my 75. If I changed it monthly I would do 2-3 cups. If its a "carbon pad" with no real carbon it probably only works for a few days and you're wasting your money. If its a carbon filter with actual carbon pieces inside then you replace it the same as regular carbon. If its a carbon filter cartridge you'd be better buying a new filter type.
 
#26 ·
This is a refurbished 90 gpd spectrapure RO/DI unit that I have and many people here recommend it. Works great. I'm not sure if it would make water fast enough for as big a tank as you have. It may depend on your water pressure. It takes mine about 4 hours to make 4 gallons.

http://spectrapure.com/Refurbished-90-GPD-RODI-System

:beer:
 
#28 · (Edited)
Thanks Brassaxe and Madwealz.

QUOTE:
Yes, as often as you possibly can. Usually when you clean your tank.

I finally cleaned out the sump and removed all the LS and seaweed that was in it. The guy that sold it to me left a little surprise. Some rusted dikes...lol
My sump looks so NICE and clean that I'm thinking of adding fish...lol:banana:
JK

QUOTE:
Nope. Unless the snails carry the detritus out of the sump and into the garbage. You want to get the phosphates and everything else out of your tank. Snails are just a really slow middle man that reprocesses it.. No snails.. Just vacuum.[/QUOTE]

Yea I heard they can get stuck in the tubing as well. One guy at the LFS told me it was okay without hesitation. He also told me not to vacuum the LS. That it was only for FW aquariums.

QUOTE:
TDS Meter.. Anything below 1 or 2 is usually acceptable, after that you ned to replace your filters. [/QUOTE]

I have an HM AP1, and it works great.

http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/ap1.html

Thanks for the recommending the meter.

QUOTE:
Every few days to once a week at least. Its not hard to clean, so the more often the better. [/QUOTE]

I have four socks so I usually change them every 3-5 days.

QUOTE:
Don't worry about it.. If it grows, fine.. If not, fine.. You want balanced live rock. If your getting one thing specifically to grow, something else is loosing real estate and suffering. Eventually degrading water quality. [/QUOTE]

Thanks for the advice.

QUOTE:
Only if your dosing something. [/QUOTE]

:funny: I read somewhere that I should check for alkalinity too. Is that for reef only?

QUOTE:
I do 25% once a week. If my Nitrate hits 10ppm then its 50%.. As long as its under 10 for a fowlr I know my tank is really nice and clean.. Daily I check my ATO.. This is all subject to personal experience, tank requirements, and other things.. You'll get a feel for it after a while. [/QUOTE]

My parameters have been great I think. My nitrates stay at 20-40. The LFS says that as long as its under 40 I am golden. My fish seem to be thriving. Especially now that I removed two of the four powerheads and plced them in the sump. My clowns were struggling to swim, so that is why I took them out.

QUOTE:Carbon is most effective for about 12-48 hours. They still work on a lesser level up to 4-6 weeks if its good quality. I change mine weekly. I use about a cup for my 75. If I changed it monthly I would do 2-3 cups. If its a "carbon pad" with no real carbon it probably only works for a few days and you're wasting your money. If its a carbon filter with actual carbon pieces inside then you replace it the same as regular carbon. If its a carbon filter cartridge you'd be better buying a new filter type. [/QUOTE]

I have a carbon filter like the rodi units. So I guess I'll start changing it evry month or so. Not to brag, but I feel like a semi-pro bc my parameters are within the guidelines...I know that there's a lot more to learn. Thanks again TRT and all members that have given input.

Hey Brassaxe,how do you do that quote thing...lol

Hey Madwealz,

What is chateu/ I currently have like 10 snails and like 7 hermits as my cleanup crew. I am gonna look into the cucumbers. I also have likwe 5-10 lbs of LR in my sump.


I just thought I'd add a new concern that I noticed this morning about hair algae. Will bigger water changes kill it? It just started on on my LR. So I wanna stop it ASAP. It's not green either. But the LR is starting to get green algae. It's not that noticeable. Thanks!
 
#29 ·
One guy at the LFS told me it was okay without hesitation. He also told me not to vacuum the LS. That it was only for FW aquariums.
FW Aquariums are a different animal. But not vacuuming a sump is terrible advice for any aquarium. That's like saying to never take out your trash. The only thing you don't want to remove from the tank is the biological bacteria. But thats in the sand, rock, filter sponges, etc.. Not in the trash you'll be vacuuming out..

I read somewhere that I should check for alkalinity too. Is that for reef only?
Fowlr aquarium really only need to be tested for Salinity, PH, and Nitrate once they are established.

Reef aquariums can need Alk, Calcium, Magnesium, and other tests depending on your needs.

My parameters have been great I think. My nitrates stay at 20-40. The LFS says that as long as its under 40 I am golden.
In a Fish only your nitrates can be in the Hundreds no problem whatsoever for the fish. I've read many studies on dangerous nitrate levels for fish, and the lowest I read was 800ppm.. Damsels were around 3000ppm and still fine.. Its no so much about what the fish can deal with, it's about what the fishes environment can take. A 5ppm Nitrate tank will take a long time to have algae problems, but a 40ppm will have them in under a year. Here is my logic.. Water changes are cheap and the expense is spread over a long period of time.. But a crashed tank is a nightmare and will cost you alot of money. Its cheap, just change the water and keep the nitrates down.

Reef tanks are different.. Most people keep them at 5ppm or less if they can.

Hey Brassaxe,how do you do that quote thing...lol
Look at the bottom right of each post. There is a Quote button and a Multi-Quote button. The quote button just quotes that post. You can click Multi-Quote at the bottom of a bunch of post and then reply. This will quote every post you selected Multi-Quote on.

Or you can manually type it in..

If I replace the ( and ) in this example with brackets.

This.

(Quote=Brassaxe)This is a test(/Quote)

Will look like this.

Brassaxe said:
This is a test
 
#30 ·
So I think my butterfly fish is a gonner. He's swimming upside down when the lights go out and hides in his cave when they go on. I just noticed this like an hour ago. I think that the white hair algae is probably Aiptasia. I would post a pic, but I scrubbed it off this morning with a toothbrush thinking it was hair algae. My two clowns are perfectly fine. I just fed them today and 2 days ago was when I did the water change and cleaned the sump. Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated. Can it be saved? If not what should I do with my clown fish?



My butterfly and clown made it through the night but it doesn't seem normal. I found another piece of white hair algae/aiptasia and when I took the rock out of the water, it kinda sucked in. I scraped it with a screwdriver and left the rock in some salt water. My butterfly fish is very lerthagic and hiding behind its cave, and my two clowns aren't as active as normal. You guys think its aiptasia?
 
#31 ·


Is this Aiptasia? Should I be worried?
You think this could have killed my Butterfly fish?
My BF had red sores this morning before he finally croaked. My Clowns are doing fine and I just got back friom the LFS and they said that my water levels are great.
I'm starting to think it was bad luck. Share our thoughts please.
 
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