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May proposed tank set-up

1K views 8 replies 4 participants last post by  OneDummHikk 
#1 ·
The attatched illustration will help guide the disscusion as to whether this system will work (i.e. Keep healthy water.) I know that to some degree that filtration is linked to foods but I do not want this post to digress to a debate over foods and which is better. I simply want to know if this system will keep healthy water. I want to know the the potential failures of such a system. Most systems are destined to fail at some point I am trying to get a handle on what could fail and why beforehand so that I can be better prepared to counter act the failure.

Thanks so much for your input.:idea:
 
#3 ·
In no particular order:

Don't use check valves. The salt creep can stop them up and give you a false sense of security by thinking you are protected when you aren't.

Canister Filters. They tend to be nitrate factories if you use them for biological filtration. Use it to run phosban (or similar) and/or carbon in them, don't use it for bilogical filtration. I wouldn't use it for the return pump though. It will work for that purpose but it limits you to the flowrate that you need through the sump instead of being able to adjust it to the flowrate you need for the media in it.

Overflow box. I would seriously consider drilling the bottom of the tank (if it isn't tempered) so that you can drop the overflow box. If it breaks siphon, the return pump will empty the sump out and burn up the pump when the sump runs dry.

In the bottom left, in the sump, you have "biomedia" listed. What are you referring to as biomedia? I would consider duplicating the refugium in the sump as well if you are referring to some other kind of biomedia.

Curiosity gets me, but why a skimmer on both tanks instead of putting them both in the sump?

Is that designed to be a seahorse tank? The "preggo males" :) If so, I don't see anything to keep the water at the temp for seahorses.

To answer your question though, as its designed, the only potential issue as far as water quality itself my be the biomedia and/or the canister filter being nitrate factories.

HTH
 
#5 ·
If DSH stand for dwarf seahorse you have quite a few issues.

There are not many keeping dwarf seahorses in a 50g, there is going to be a challenge in that itself.

Dwarf seahorses will go over the top of an overflow box, especially the fry. Your going to want to drill the tank and run strainers instead. IME even if you try to guard the overflow with sponges, or veil then the water and seahorses just goes over the top.

That is a lot of flow for dwarf seahorses if your listing the gh in what it will return to your tank as.

In one diagram it shows the return as a cannister, the other as a return pump which is it? "line up from cannister"

I would ditch the bio media and skimmer IMO and just run that as a refugium. If you can go bigger then a 0g that would be awesome, a 20 or 30g would be better. You can even use a rubbermaid container as a sump, saves money and come in a larger variety of sizes.

There is no reason to have an intake refugium in the tank if it is for dwarfs, the fry eat the same foods as the adults, bbs. The Albany Aquarium has been breeding dwarfs for 50 years with the fry in the tanks, it works well.

Onedumbhikk makes a lot of good points as well. In order for people to help you with your system it really helps to know what you'll be keeping in it. For example if that was for a SPS tank, it would be horrible, for a planted tank with just inverts, might be great.

HTH
 
#6 ·
If DSH stand for dwarf seahorse you have quite a few issues.

There are not many keeping dwarf seahorses in a 50g, there is going to be a challenge in that itself.

Dwarf seahorses will go over the top of an overflow box, especially the fry. Your going to want to drill the tank and run strainers instead. IME even if you try to guard the overflow with sponges, or veil then the water and seahorses just goes over the top.

That is a lot of flow for dwarf seahorses if your listing the gh in what it will return to your tank as.

In one diagram it shows the return as a cannister, the other as a return pump which is it? "line up from cannister"

I would ditch the bio media and skimmer IMO and just run that as a refugium. If you can go bigger then a 0g that would be awesome, a 20 or 30g would be better. You can even use a rubbermaid container as a sump, saves money and come in a larger variety of sizes.

There is no reason to have an intake refugium in the tank if it is for dwarfs, the fry eat the same foods as the adults, bbs. The Albany Aquarium has been breeding dwarfs for 50 years with the fry in the tanks, it works well.

Onedumbhikk makes a lot of good points as well. In order for people to help you with your system it really helps to know what you'll be keeping in it. For example if that was for a SPS tank, it would be horrible, for a planted tank with just inverts, might be great.

HTH



The HOT Surface skimmer there are a number of reasons I have to do the HOT. Suffice it to say that at least for now that most likely will not change.

There will be a fine mesh that completely covers the top of the surface skimmer. It is not likely that it will clog especially with some one (me) paying attention. As for the DSH getting caught up in the surface skimmer it is not likely either. ALL of the video and photos I have which amount to hundreds upon hundreds one of which was a non-stop video covering 8 consecutive days showed that the DSH and it fry were predominately Benthic. And with the surface skimmers flow about 15 inches away from where the DSH hang out (pun intended) it should not pose a threat or problem. Then on the other hand who knows what will happen and what the live stock will do once we get it in our tanks (i.e. some species that are supposed to have been good tank mates for the DSH have ended up eating them and others report that bad tank mates end being OK. But that's not the question.


As for the type of pump, sorry for the confusion. Over sight error no one is perfect. There will only be a sub' Pump a Rio 1700 or 2100 depends.

The gph as listed on the diagram is what the pump is rated for with 0 head. I think that's what you mean for the flow. The in tank target flow will be about 4x per hour and with a gross volume of 55G the target tank flow will be around 200 gph

As for the fuge again an error in deletion. No fuge.

I'm still kickin' around the idea of a larger sump. The bio media was canned a couple of days ago. Instead I will be going for a deep sand bed (8 inches or more) but not live sand per se.

You see this diagram is not cast in stone or iron. It's an idea compiled from some of the things I have learned in general. Some things are good; some things are not so good. That's the reason I am asking questions. It's also the reason that there are errors on the diagram as things change, I change the plan. And being human am prone to make mistakes.

Some of my ides come from the general background and knowledge I have in the keeping of fresh water systems for about 20 years. There is no comparison about the only things that are the same is the glass box and source water. After that everything changes.

The other thing that I was hoping for and just cannot seem to get is why something is a bad idea or even why something is a good idea (better than mine). I am not saying that I have a perfect plan there is in all likelihood bad ideas that are incorporated into the plan. Someone just simply saying, "It's a bad idea IMO." does not help me understand why it's a bad idea. Further when I try to explain myself in rebuttal. Some stop posting for feedback. How does that help me?

It might be very well true that there are few that keep DSH in a large system. Mostly because that's the way it has always been. Anecdotal side thought: Ever see the movie, "It's a bug's life"? There a good example of trying to break from tradition. There is nothing wrong with tradition. But, when tradition works against keeping one from trying new things, then the tradition is no longer a tradition it becomes an edict and mandate. Nearly 20 years ago while keeping FW systems, I decided to go with using a soil substrate (topsoil) I was told that is was a bad idea and that I would end up killing my fishes. My primary aim was to raise aquatic plates very heavily. Today there are a multitude of books on just how to do what everyone was telling was a bad idea, keep a natural soil substrate for the growing of aquatic plants in a FW system. I know there is no comparison there, but I get the feeling that after almost five months of research and having put together a PRELIMINARY plan almost everyone thinks, and it has been said out right that my plan is "outrageous".

Here's a thought too: In looking for sources for the purchase of the DSH I have found few that sell captive bread and many that sell wild caught. If in the keeping of the variety of fishes, including the DSH, we want to work toward protecting our primary resource WC then there seems to a digression of ideology. For example: I can buy at most retailers of the DSH about 12 WC for under $100. But if I want to buy captive bread DSH I have been quoted $65.00 for 1 with no price break for multiple. That would mean if I wanted to buy 10 I would have to spend $650 plus sales tax.

I said all that to say this. To me, the keeping of the DSH is a hobby pure and simple. Hobbies of almost every nature cost money. Some more some less but they cost. Having said that, and because I want the hobby to expand (like many) I have though about either giving or selling any overstock that may develop if I am even remotely successful, And I wont be selling them for $65.00 each to be certain. That would be an outrage. If we want to protect our resources then we all need to think about providing a way that is less expensive for the entry level hobbyist. Just like many of you, I too would hope that those entering the hobby would do research and ask questions just like me. Further, I would not suggest that the average hobbyist try to copy what I do. I too like many would suggest that they keep the DSH in a 10 gallon system. The only change that I would make in that system is that they have a very large sump of some sort just to increase the volume of water for the sake of stability of the system.

You have asked about what I plan to keep in the tank here is a PRELIMINARY list.

Sea Horses (DSH)
Sand Sifter Crabs
Asteras (Astera sp)
Ceriths (Cerithium strercusmuscarum)
Nassarius snails (Nassarius variegates)
Halocaridina rubra (Tiny Red Shrimp)
Cultured copepods (Cultured in separate containers)
Incidental phytoplankton used as food for the cultures copepods
There may be even incidental rotifers but not an intentional addition
 
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