[tkjeffrey]

They flop around due to nerves being severed. Kinda like a chicken with his head cut off. (just provoking somebody, I like the theory they do feel pain, but not gonna feel bad when I catch a 10 pound bass )

 

[Spanky]

Doug we have plenty of time to play around later.

This is a serious subject now stay on topic.



:funny:

 

[Casey]

They flop around due to nerves being severed. Kinda like a chicken with his head cut off. (just provoking somebody, I like the theory they do feel pain, but not gonna feel bad when I catch a 10 pound bass )

travis if you cut my arm off I would jump around to and it would not be because you severed my nerves it would be because of the PAIN!

 

[tkjeffrey]

a fish with no head is dead but he still flops around

 

[Casey]

Thats because of nerves impulses but he still felt the pain when his head went off .

 

[tankgirl2]

I think it's reasonable for carnivores and omnivores to kill for food without guilt (or simply to hunt to retain the skills and utilize them, for that matter). Come to that, (since plants apparently feel pain) we can't avoid causing pain in order to survive.
I glossed the articles, but the authors seemed to be talking about emotional pain rather than nerve endings firing off type of pain. Did anyone else get that idea?

 

[Awestralian]

I say pain is a basic survival instinct.
No body likes it - well some nutters do! - but its necessary to our survival to feel pain and make us not want to ever do whatever brought the pain on again.

I dont care how 'undeveloped' a fishes brain is, the fact remains they have a brain, and as pointed out, they have nerves, so they must feel pain at some level, even if it may not be at the same intense level that we feel it.

 

[512148048]

um well yes because if they didnt then a rock could fall on them and they wouldent care and if they didnt feel pain then they wouldn't feel at all.

 

[512148048]

Awestralian thank you

 

[Doug1]

I tend to agree with yah awestralian, they have to sense something at least on a primitive level, and if it felt good or indifferent then it would be a useless response as a survival mechanism

 

[tkjeffrey]

Thats because of nerves impulses but he still felt the pain when his head went off .

You ask him?? No seriously, I think they feel pain also on some level then why would some fish give other creatures in the ocean such a wide berth. I just dont dont know on what level they feel it Dr. Dolittle in the house?

 

[Awestralian]

I think it's reasonable for carnivores and omnivores to kill for food without guilt (or simply to hunt to retain the skills and utilize them, for that matter). Come to that, (since plants apparently feel pain) we can't avoid causing pain in order to survive.
I glossed the articles, but the authors seemed to be talking about emotional pain rather than nerve endings firing off type of pain. Did anyone else get that idea?

I thought that to a degree as well about the first article.

Just so we are clear, i am talking pure physical -ow that hurt like hell - better not do that again - pain, not emotional - i feel guilty for eating that snail but i was so hungry - pain.

The first is necessary for survival, the second is not.

 

[tankgirl2]

Much easier that way!

 

[Spanky]

Sort of edges on the ability to learn things - don't it? LOL

I have fish that learn and are able to reason.

 

[EdgeKrusher]

I wish my Ocellaris would learn to stay away from my hand when it goes in the tank. I don't want to cause him any physical pain, but the way he strikes my hand I just want to pop him one sometimes.

 

[reiple]

Do corals feel pain? Or react by instinct only?
Do clams feel pain? Or react by instinct only?

The way artificial reefs are lighted to "bring out the colors" not seen in the wild (or ocean), does this mean the coral is reacting to the light? Does this give it pain?

Heck why should it matter? .... sorry....blabbering...again....

 

[gregt]

Reaction to lighting stimulus is not "learned". Reaction to "pain" can be learned.

As doug said, they do it once, find out it "hurts" and avoid it from then on.

That's different than "genetic programming".

 

[EdgeKrusher]

My Ocellaris is stupid then cuz there have been several times he's startled me when my hands in the tank and I've batted him away when I jump.

 

[gregt]

I don't think fish will win any IQ test prizes. But that doesn't mean they can learn basic survival behaviour based on pain. The problem is they've learned your hand means food more often than pain, so they act accordingly.

 

[EdgeKrusher]

I don't feed them with my hand, I have a plastic spoon that I use to put food in the water. It's just when I put my arm in to upright a fallen snail, to kalk some Aptasia, or attach a peice of coral. It acutally hurts when he strikes me, is that common. I think I'm more afraid of him than he is of me. LOL