The Reef Tank banner
1 - 9 of 9 Posts

· Administrator
Joined
·
61,144 Posts
Interesting , the first article goes on at great lengths to support the theory, while the second cuts to the chase, citing responses to bee venom and acetic acid injections.
Having observed encounters between lionfish (volitans and dendrochirus ) and eels, spotted panther grouper and a few other predatory fish, I have seen the aggresors streak away after encounter that most likely caused envenomation, erratic behaviour, ie shaking and spasming, and hiding out for a few days, followed by giving the lion fish wide space after after.
One gets the impression that they have some system of processing that input beyond flight or fight. If there was no pain or other signal alarming they would press on the attack, rather than flee in a frenzy and avoid further contact.
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
61,144 Posts
Being from the PNW I have some familiarity with Salmonoids :) Isn't the theory that they depend on chemical clues to find there way back upstream to their spawning grounds? They may be able to process electromagnetic info on some level to aid in navigation, on a primitive level when compared to say a dolphin using fairly sophisticated echo location as well as all the other tricks. I think the weak point in the argument stated in the first article is that the author relies on the more developed brain of humans as his reference, fish have less developed brains and the parts that we use for this and that are missing or underdeveloped therefore they can't feel pain, etc. This is just my uneduacated theory but I suspect that their brains have adapted to produce some sensation that is interpreted as a danger signal, and pain, whatever that is seems to be a common one.
When a fish is hooked is it just trying to escape and resisting again whats got a hold of it? Or is it because its got this big hooky do stuck in its mouth and it hurts like hell?
What not to eat is prolly a conditioned reponse, but when a lion stings an eel or grouper thers got to be something goping on that tells them, ****, aint trying that again :)
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
61,144 Posts
OK then if the nerves retain a memory of an unpleasent sensation, ie scorpionadae envenomation, what was the sensation that the nerve remembered? Wouldn't there be some reaction that the organism senses is not a good thing to repeat?
I know from personal exp that pain signals tell me somethings amiss, and if its really painful, like breaking a leg, it promotes behavior modification to limit repeating that again. It wasn't the wife threatening to boot my butt out or my friends denying me access to motorcycles no more that spurred my decision not to ride anymore. It was the memory of a 4 hr ride to the hospital and the pain and discomfort post surgical that told me NO Mas :)
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
61,144 Posts
Actually I think that goes along with the point that the author of the first site was trying to prove. Pain is both physialogical and psychological. Humans have the ability to learn to shut down pain thru conditioning or stress. We differ in our tolerences to various painful stimuli, and some are more adept at overcoming them than others
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
61,144 Posts
Oh I understand dwelling and trauma, I even know well the relationship between trauma and drama, but I feel we are drifting from the original point.
In my example I pointed out a defensive mechanism of the lionfish, observed reaction in a potential predator, and the behavior exhibited there after. Relating on a human level I think it hurt like hell cause said predator to not want to repeat it, Therefore, based on my experience and translating it to observed reactions, I would say said predator felt something that reinforced the thought, "don't do that again. FWIW I have had same defensive action taken against me, and I don't pet lionfish no more. And no it wasn't the anaphylactic shock and 3 day hospital stay that changed my mind, it was a pain perception that would have lit up the face of the Marquis deSade like a kid on xmas morning ;)
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
61,144 Posts
I tend to agree with yah awestralian, they have to sense something at least on a primitive level, and if it felt good or indifferent then it would be a useless response as a survival mechanism
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top