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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got clams on the brain. It's virgin territory for me so I was wondering what y'all thot.

My tank is 55g. Because of its smaller size, I was thinking of crocea, around 4". I have 2x175w MH, 15K XM's. Lights are 8 inches above the water. How high up in the tank do I need to put one (ie, you wouldnt put it any lower than how many inches)? I do not have any supplemental actinics, just the 15K spectrum bulbs. Is this adequate?

The other thing is, my nitrates are currently 20. (I have another thread dealing with this, but am taking a multi-faceted approach to removing some nitrate)

When is it safe in my reduction of nitrates to add a clam (how many ppm do clams seem to tolerate pretty well)? I do know they supposedly help rid the tank of some nitrates but that they can't tolerate a high amount.
 

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Saltwater Mom
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I wouldn't add anything until you get all the numbers to zero. You want your water to be stable before adding more inhabitants.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
mostly soft coral and a token lps (euphyllia). I am due to get more bulbs soon and can up the wattage. I will definitely wait till the nitrates are below ten. Im in no huge hurry for a clam and want to be sure it will be happy in my tank before getting one. Are you saying my tank needs to HAVE sps before I try a clam? I frankly dont care for sps and since I have mostly softies I am not sure sps would be happy in my tank anyways. Will this be a problem with clams too? I think as long as I have the proper light, flow and water chemistry (calcium etc) then I should be ok, hopefully.....

OH! one other thing. i was reading in Coral magazine, it said if you have any surgeonfish you should not have a clam. I have a yellow tang and was wondering about this. I would gather that most people who have clams probably do have surgeonfish. Can anyone relay their experiences on this?
 

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Several surgeonfishes with my clams in both systems that are wet now, btw, nitrates are not a problem with clams, neither is some ammonia, which is used in some of the food clam farms to feed the clams (actually their zooxanthellae), I will look for some references on the topic, I have the South Pacific clam farmers reference here somewhere.
 

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My LFS had a Beautiful Yellow tang in his display tank and umm.... had to dispose of the tang because it started to eat the clam. He said this was a rare occurence but I don't know Just thought I would pass along his experence.

Fred
 

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yeah, they are not usual culprits on this, but there are reports. I guess it will depend on if the fish is well-fed, nevver been pushed to eat the clams, and has read the tang book... :read:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
thanks Tom. So do you think that 20ppm nitrates are tolerable level for a crocea then? I respect your opinion...
 

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I do not see that as an issue, in fact, it may be healthy for the clam, I will look for some studies that verify this for you, as it is speculation on my part.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
thanks i appreciate it. maybe should I post a poll of people who have clams and what their nitrates are. i was reading on a thread earlier someone who has goni, plate corals, mushrooms etc and they have medium levels of trates and not a whole lot of filtration etc. and the corals are doing well and growing.....ive heard that about goniopora
 

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Still cannot locate the references AI have on the topic, but I'll look more on the fourth. Keep in mind that the main reason the clams use more organic sourced nitrogen and even some phospohates is the HUGE numbers of photoxynthetic zooxanthellae that clams have. Due to the large surface area and depth of active photosynthesis, clams may easily contain around 10 times as much symbiotic algae than corals of similar surface area. This is a function of the symbiont channel system of the mantle that clams employ to manage their photosynthetic utput. This higher density and number of zooxanthellae also requires much more nitrogen in order to function normally than any coral would of similar surface area. This allows clams to function in waters with nitrogenous and phosphate compound concentrations that we normally would not EVEN consider for corals. In order for these types of waters to be toxic to clams, the levels would have to be truly above normal limits for corals. The actual numbers elude me at this moment ( I am looking for the 1993 paper by the Phillipean clam biologist Carmen A Belda, in which he varied nitrogen levels and compared rates of growth for clams, I'll PM TIMMAH and prolly get it quicker than if I dig through my "filing system..."), but I will find the top numbers for normal growth and development this week (so bump this ttt sometime tuesday for a reminder... :D ) I personally employ a large squammie and a pair of Maximas in the display tank to keep the nitrates and phosphates in this DSB tank down. In tanks with many clams, occasionally unexplained deaths or sudden bleaching events are the result of inadequate levels of nitrate and phosphate for the zooxanthellae. If your goal is to keep clams, then it may become necessary in tanks with heavy populations to supplemient nitrogen and phosphorus. See the chapter on clam diseases in the Knopp book, page 87-88 for more on the topic.
 

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uber-stupid
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salt creepette said:
thanks i appreciate it. maybe should I post a poll of people who have clams and what their nitrates are. i was reading on a thread earlier someone who has goni, plate corals, mushrooms etc and they have medium levels of trates and not a whole lot of filtration etc. and the corals are doing well and growing.....ive heard that about goniopora
I would consider 40 nitrates very high. And I was wrong about the plate coral it is a cup or pagoda.
 

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Thanks timmah!!!

abstract of belda article said:
Nutrient limitation in the giant clam-zooxanthellae symbiosis: effects of nutrient supplements on growth of the symbiotic partners
C. A. Belda1, 2, J. S. Lucas1 and D. Yellowlees1
(1) Faculty of Science, James Cook University of North Queensland, 4811 Townsville, Queensland, Australia (2) Present address: Marine Science Institute, University of the Philippines, Diliman, 1101 Quezon City, Philippines Received: 8 June 1993 Accepted: 14 June 1993
Communicated by G. F. Humphrey, Sydney
Abstract The effect of ammonium (5, 10
M N) and phosphate (2, 5, 10
M P) on the growth of the giant clam Tridacna gigas and its symbiotic dinoflagellate Symbiodinium sp. was examined. A 3 mo exposure to these nutritients significantly increased the N or P composition of the soft tissues, as reflected in a corresponding change in C:N:p ratio. Furthermore, exposure to N or N+P markedly increased the amount of soft tissue, but P alone did not, demonstrating that increased availability of inorganic nitrogen enhances tissue growth of the clam host. With addition of N, or N+P, there was a significant increase in the total number of zooxanthellae per clam, with a corresponding decrease in chlorophyll a (chl a) content per zooxanthella. However, only with N+P was there an increase in the zooxanthellae mitotic index. The inverse relationship between zooxanthellae number and chl a per zooxanthella is consistent with phytoplankton studies indicating conditions of nutrient-limitation. Furthermore, the unaffected C:N:p composition of the zooxanthellae and their relatively low specific-growth rates (4 to 10%) also suggest that they are nutrient-limited in vivo. In particular, their high mean C:N:p ratio of 303:52:1 indicates that, relative to C, they are much more depleted in P and less in N than are free-living phytoplankton. Furthermore, polyphosphates (phosphate reserves) were undetectable, and the activity levels of acid phosphatase in the zooxanthellae were relatively high and not influenced by the host's exposure to increased P concentrations in the sea water, implicating the clam host in active regulation of P availability to its symbiotic algae. This is strong evidence that N-limitation of clam zooxanthellae is a function of the availability of ammonium to the symbiosis while, irrespective of nutrient levels in sea water, clam zooxanthellae still show characteristics of P-limitation
The article details some of the levels used and methodology, I will get the article and give you the numbers so yull have an idea of at least what is survivable. The nutrients for a clam tank will make a stony coral aquarist shudder at th4 thought, this is what makes them so good in a DSB system, as they will uptake P and N and grow like weeds, much to the advantage of the coloration of the stony corals.


More to follow, HTH
 

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Clams just rock! and suck up the bad stuff lets face it 20 ppm nitrates no problemo for them badboys.:banana:
 
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