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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm wondering if it's necessary to have flow across the bottom to blow the crap out from underneath the rocks or if it just needs to sit and wait to be siphoned? I know it should get overflowed is the best way but how do you guys (or girls) get the flow just right to move crap off the bottom to the overflows and not around the tank? My tank is a standard 180 72x24x24. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks, Sean.
 

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c.a.g. owner and operator
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sean , the idea behind b.b. is to keep the detritus in suspension and get it into the overflows . so i guess the answer would be yes you should have something on the bottom to keep it blowing around .four tunze power heads would to the trick ! you will find that you will still have a few areas where the detritus will build up , you just try and get those pockets where you can easily siphon it out .
 

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Hi Sean,

Welcome to TRT!

It is, generally, a good idea to have sufficient flow across the bottom of the tank to keep light stuff in suspension and to gather heavier stuff into a few easy-to-reach piles. By sufficient flow I mean enough so that if you dropped a snail to the bottom of the tank, it would roll until it hit a rock. The snail wouldn’t be able to stay in one place unless it attaches itself to the bottom.

The flow doesn’t have to be strong everywhere. In fact, if you have Euphyllia (Torches, Hammers or Frogspawn. Etc.), it would be a good idea to have a few locations with gentle swirling flow rather than strong laminar flow. These would be the places little piles of detritus would gather.

In my 180, the flow is driven by two 6100 Tunze Streams and one 6000 Tunze stream on a multicontroller. Flow is strong everywhere except two eddy spots, one on the far left and one on the far right side of the tank. That’s where I keep my Euphyllia. Keeping the bottom of the tank clean is trivial. Once a week I siphon out the little pile of stuff on the right side and siphon out the little pile of stuff on the left side, and I’m done.
 

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c.a.g. owner and operator
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sorry sean , i didn't see that this was post #1 .
WELCOME TO TRT !
 

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Welcome to TRT!

I saw this picture on another forum and I like the idea, all the debry will go to the bottom and that should be easier to clean or to have the debry suspended. I tried this on my new 55gal but I think it looks too out of place. I think my tank is not tall enough to avoid looking right at the pvc not to mention the white color. Check it out.
 

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I agree Tunze does the trick. Mine is pointed at the front glass most of the flow goes down and across the bottom of the tank keeping it nice and clean.
 

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A spray bar along the back will do the job also and you wont have to look at anything in the tank. As said above, export is the key to a BB tank. Also, making the cleaning as simple as possible makes it less likely (for me anyway) that maintainence will lapse.
Welocme to TRT!!!!

Robert
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi! :wavey: Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!!

gwaco - I have two 6100 streams now, trick is positioning them right!

Weatherman - Could there be too much suspension or just covering the rocks right back over again from what they've just shedded? How do you get those piles that end up in the back somewhere? Since we both have 180s I was wondering where you have your streams placed. Currently my streams are at each end magneted to the side pointing at middle front. They run a 100% switch to 40% pulse cycle every 6 seconds. Siphoning is a daily event for me. I have huge amounts of crap that I suck out and am waiting for day I could do it weekly, how much of an affect does it have if it just sits there for a couple days?

Little Luey - I like that too. I just might have to prop my rocks up like that. Makes it easy to get everything underneath. Right now it's pretty clear under there from end to end but could be better on mine. I still have some spots that I can't quite get out yet. Thanks!

Mike O'Brien - If I could just get my tunzes right! Maybe I could point them down more towards the bottom?

motorslave - Thanks! Closed loop with a spray bar. That'd get rid of the six seio 820s I have running on the bottom! Good idea.

Thanks again everyone! Sean.
 

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ScallopKing said:
Weatherman - Could there be too much suspension or just covering the rocks right back over again from what they've just shedded?
As long as the flow is reasonably strong everywhere, that shouldn't be a problem. It may become a problem if you just use a spraybar to keep the bottom clean but the flow in the rest of the water is relatively light. Then, stuff will get swept off the bottom and land on the rocks.

ScallopKing said:
How do you get those piles that end up in the back somewhere? Since we both have 180s I was wondering where you have your streams placed. Currently my streams are at each end magneted to the side pointing at middle front. They run a 100% switch to 40% pulse cycle every 6 seconds. Siphoning is a daily event for me. I have huge amounts of crap that I suck out and am waiting for day I could do it weekly, how much of an affect does it have if it just sits there for a couple days?

My three Tunze Streams are on a muticontroller in “sequential” mode.


The Tunze Stream on the back-left (a 6100) starts first and gets water moving from left to right along the back of the tank. The PVC pipe just to the right of the Stream is the return line from the sump. This forces the flow from the Tunze Stream down toward the bottom of the tank along the back. Behind the rock is an open channel, which is swept clean by the Tunze Stream and the sump return.

The Tunze on the right (a 6100) starts second. It moves water from right to left across the front of the tank.

The clockwise circulation is allowed to gain momentum for about 30 seconds before the left front Tunze Stream (a 6000) turns on. This produces an opposing flow across the front of the tank to bring the circulation to a stop. The convergence in flow between the left front and right front Tunze Streams keeps the bottom front of the tank swept clean.

The only relatively calm spots are the far left (where the Euphillia are), and under the rocks on the far right. Those are the only two locations where sand and detritus gather.

The rock shed stuff like crazy for the first four to six months after I removed the sand. I had to clean out a filter pad in the sump at least twice a day or it would get clogged up. I now clean it about once a day. Once a week siphoning out of the little piles of stuff in the tank seems to be sufficient. I know I’ve waited too long when cyano starts to grow on the detritus piles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Weatherman said:
As long as the flow is reasonably strong everywhere, that shouldn't be a problem. It may become a problem if you just use a spraybar to keep the bottom clean but the flow in the rest of the water is relatively light. Then, stuff will get swept off the bottom and land on the rocks.




My three Tunze Streams are on a muticontroller in “sequential” mode.


The Tunze Stream on the back-left (a 6100) starts first and gets water moving from left to right along the back of the tank. The PVC pipe just to the right of the Stream is the return line from the sump. This forces the flow from the Tunze Stream down toward the bottom of the tank along the back. Behind the rock is an open channel, which is swept clean by the Tunze Stream and the sump return.

The Tunze on the right (a 6100) starts second. It moves water from right to left across the front of the tank.

The clockwise circulation is allowed to gain momentum for about 30 seconds before the left front Tunze Stream (a 6000) turns on. This produces an opposing flow across the front of the tank to bring the circulation to a stop. The convergence in flow between the left front and right front Tunze Streams keeps the bottom front of the tank swept clean.

The only relatively calm spots are the far left (where the Euphillia are), and under the rocks on the far right. Those are the only two locations where sand and detritus gather.

The rock shed stuff like crazy for the first four to six months after I removed the sand. I had to clean out a filter pad in the sump at least twice a day or it would get clogged up. I now clean it about once a day. Once a week siphoning out of the little piles of stuff in the tank seems to be sufficient. I know I’ve waited too long when cyano starts to grow on the detritus piles.
Weatherman, first a big thanks for your pic and advice! I think that's what was happening with my Seios running. I believe that they, once kicked out from underneath, were carrying the detrius back onto the rocks. I've since turned them off (for the last two days) and have more accumulation that I did before. What shedded actually stayed on the bottom now. Make sense? The flow is strong but not positioned right becuase it blows right back underneath the rock again is the seios aren't running. I really want to get rid of those 6 seios running....electricity, visual and definately if they are not doing the job effectively.

I didn't expect this much shedding to be honest. Thought I swished out all the stuff when I switched to BB almost two months ago now. Guess I have a few more to go, it seems. I siphon daily, into my micron and change that daily too right now. I also clean my skimmer weekly which gets covered in thick mud. Sometimes I don't get the piles daily though and too see algae buildup on the front and sides of the tank.

How much LR do you have in your tank? Sean.
 

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I have about 120 lbs of rock, which I've stacked into a very open structure. Water very easily flows around and underneath it, and of course, the entire back is open. My Powder Blue likes to race from right to left along the front of the tank, bank around the left side, then race from left to right along the entire back, then bank around the right side, just riding the current the entire way.


In my two other tanks... I have about 100 lbs of rock in my 155 and 90 lbs in my 120.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I've started removing some of my rocks so get it more open. I think about 70lbs. and climbing right now. I realized that more LR wasn't necessarily good if it was just collecting dirt. I had 360lbs to begin with in my 180!

You say 'and of course the entire back is open' is that a requirement of BB that I missed?

That's cool, instead of a dog run...you have a fish run!! LOL.
 

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Heres how I keep the back clean in the 150 with one pump! Sequence Barracuda pushes the manifold with the flow hitting two 3/4 bulkheads first then up to the top returns. Works like a charm with perfect balance. The back and bottom of the tank stay spotless!

Robert
 

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The spraybar acts as a stand for the rock too. I dont use risers for the rockk at all. It rests on tips of each piece so the flow on the bottom is as un obstructed as possible. I get two piles of detritus to siphon. The flow is strong enough that very little is left at the bottom.

Robert
 

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I use Tunzes to keep it moving or Roberts spraybar will do it also.:)
 

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ScallopKing said:
You say 'and of course the entire back is open' is that a requirement of BB that I missed?
No, I just chose to set it up that way because the tank is wide enough (24"), I have corner overflows (instead of those ridiculous offset megaflows), and I have one very active fish.
 

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ScallopKing said:
...I siphon daily, into my micron and change that daily too right now. I also clean my skimmer weekly which gets covered in thick mud. Sometimes I don't get the piles daily though and too see algae buildup on the front and sides of the tank.
This type of reaction for a system in early flux stages from a DSB setup is to be expected, and will probably continue for another 2 or 3 months until a good bit of the nutrient load cooks out of the rock. Would it be possible for you to set up a temporary second skimmer and a phosban reactor?

BTW, good to get rid of the seios, basically just Rio PH's in disguise... :agree:
 

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Oh, and WELCOME TO TRT!!!


Do you have a photo of your setup that you could post for us? That will help us make suggestions that are more appropriate to your setup for pump placement.
 

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Welcome to TRT!!

:wavey:



here is a pic of the backside of one of my mounds before i did the epoxy SB. the 1.5" elbow you see is one of the two outlets from an Ampmaster 3000. the other outlet is under the secound LR mound.

so far after 2 months of running i have had zero build up of detritus under the LR. i have a couple of spods, but it took less than a gallon of water to get them.

G~
 
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