[Fat Tony]

Adam... I wouldn't go with the Octo pumps... they draw way too much power. Spend the little extra and buy the Sicce's. I haven't put my amp meter on mine yet, but the Octo pulled about 210 watts in my system... matter fact, i'm going to take some measurements now

 

[Fat Tony]

w00t! as I suspected, the Sicce pump pulls aboput a quarter the amperage of the Octo pump. The Octo pump was pulling about 1.8 amps while the Sicce pulls 0.5 amps... that translates into a pump that is VERY efficient and pulls some serious air!

 

[Fat Tony]

I just looked at the site you were referencing for the build. If you decide to go with decent pumps, you are going to spend as much on the DIY skimmer for something that is going to take up a ton of space as you would if you bought one of the modded NW200's from Marine Solutions (modded with the Sicce pump ) like the one I have... for me, it would be a no brainer, I would just buy the skimmer from Marine Solutions...but that's just me.

 

[OneDummHikk]

Randy, I wouldn't see why they wouldn't fit. Why would the manufacturer redo the entire pump when all they needed to do was modify the volute and add a proper impeller?

Because if it were as simple as changing the impeller and volute then I would expect to see a lot more info about simply swapping it over since so many people have Mag pumps lying around. The Mag needlewheels are not new products, they have been out for a while now. And with them being out that long, and nothing showing where people have converted, then it might be a safe assumption that they may not swap out. And if they were made not to be able to swap out, then Mag could sell more pumps instead of just a retro kit.

I just looked at the site you were referencing for the build. If you decide to go with decent pumps, you are going to spend as much on the DIY skimmer for something that is going to take up a ton of space as you would if you bought one of the modded NW200's from Marine Solutions (modded with the Sicce pump ) like the one I have... for me, it would be a no brainer, I would just buy the skimmer from Marine Solutions...but that's just me.

I always have to laugh when I read things like that. "Ton of space"? The skimmer he referenced won't take up any more room than the Chinese made MSX skimmers do and possibly less.

Whether people DIY is a choice they make. Some people do, some people don't. It isn't always a better option nor a worse option. I wonder how hard it would be to get an MSX skimmer with a taller body? A DIY skimmer is ALWAYS more flexible with deisgn changes.

As for the cost, if you use a pump you already have, then its below 50 dollars for a DIY skimmer. How is a 200+ skimmer cheaper than a 50 dollar skimmer?

 

[Fat Tony]

Foot print is not just a determining factor in space Randy, Height is another major concern since personally I would not want to see a big ugly skimmer sticking out from my tank. As far as the cost of the build, On his site it listed the parts cost (with a cheap pump) around $170. If one decided to use a much more efficient pump that they would have to purchase, that brings the total to about the same cost or more than One of the NW200's with the pump modification (Sicce psk2500). I'm sure you have seen the trends lately with skimmers. A tall slender skimmer is no more efficient than a short wide skimmer with a bubble plate. IME, most DIY stuff that we try to do, end in costing more in terms of time and energy and redesigns than they would have cost just to purchase a decent piece of equipment in the first place.

As far as the Mag pumps are concerned. I think you don't hear as much about them being used/modified because there are better pumps out there. Most people tend to stick with pumps that are already proven as good skimmer pumps liek the Eheims, or choose to go the cheap route (which is what most DIYers are trying to do) and use a much less expensive but more powerful pump. If it were me, I would spend the inital cost and just buy one and see if it fits... if it doesn't then send it back...instead of spending all the energy trying to find out (along with the hassles and headaches) if it will work....but that's just me being silly I guess.

 

[Fat Tony]

Hey Adam, as I was reading through this thread again, I noticed you are wanting to use the 55 as the sump.. they make ok sumps, but I have found that the taller the sump, the harder it is to work under the stand and makes maintenance a living he11.

a 33 Long makes a much better sump and you can get them at AO for right at $60...it's the same footprint of the 55, but is just shorter...

 

[Alittlefishy]

I've actually come up with a hybrid skimmer idea that is loosely based on the above referenced site's recirculating idea, but changed so that it will have a 24" reaction body instead of the 13" and a bubble plate like the MSX. I wonder if I will need the bubble plate since I am adding extra height to the reaction body?

I wanted to try the Resun (octo) pump since i had it on hand, and the QO2200 I have also. If they don't work as well as I would like, I will go with the sicce or the sedra pump.

Cost is a factor in my decision to DIY something, but only in the respect that an Off-The-Shelf Recirc skimmer for 200+ gallons starts at the $300 mark and goes up from there. My other reason is that I like to tinker with stuff. Although my tinkering depends on how much time I waste at work.:lol: I may have to skip the diy if I run out of time before the move. I'm planning on my new tank to be BB and I want to use something like Zeovit and the like to really make the corals pop. I really want to make sure that my skimmer is overkill either way I go.

The 55 tank will be used as the sump for a few weeks while I get settled in the new townhomes. After that, I will:
change to the 33L
upgrade the skimmer to the DIY or a store bought.
get new bulbs in my T-5 fixture
start working on an ATO so I can go on vacation

 

[OneDummHikk]

I had an entire reply to this typed up and have changed my mind. It simply isn't worth it.

.5Amp is what? ~55 watts? You should compare that to an Eheim 1262 pump.

 

[Fat Tony]

I have compared it to the 1260 which pulls about 80 watts in my system. The 1262 I would expect to pull about 100 watts. No that doesn't take into account the power factor and stuff, that is just 100% amperage pull on the pump reading the hot leg. The advertised ratings on pump are after powerfactor is calculated in... so with that said, the 30 watt rating on the Sicce would be about right and the 65 watt (as far as I can remember) on the Eheim is about right as well.

With your reply that it simply isn't worth it, I take it that you are getting a little offended or something. No real reason to be, why get offended, this is simple opinion based thread on a DIY skimmer. My opinion is that you can buy one that will cost the same and be as or more effective or efficient... once again, that's my opinion. I see your side as well cause you like to tinker with stuff. I just find that oftentimes we spend more on making DIY stuff work than we would have if we would have just bought the item we were trying to save money on... Once again my opinion here. I personally want to do it once, and call it done until I upgrade (again) in the future. But then again, I don't have the time to tinker with stuff all the time, nor the want after I tinker all day at work

No love loss bro, lets just continue this debate further

 

[OneDummHikk]

I knew the Eheim was a higher wattage pump. But it doesn't stop you from seeing people recommend it as a "great pump". But, there is more to it than just the wattage it uses. I am still researching/testing but I am not so convinced anymore that the Sicce's are the answer-all for skimmer pumps. Time will tell though. I hope it is and that I am wrong though.

With regards to the mag series pump though, I did get an email from Premium Aquatics today and the impeller/housing for the needlewheel isn't sold seperate. The only way to get it is to buy the pump. Guess it means that if the impeller breaks, you have to buy another pump. None of it made sense. Although he did include a link to a venturi they offer that will fit the mag series pumps:

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...en=PROD&Product_Code=KENT-TVEN7&Category_Code=

I won't get into a DIY-vs-buy type debate here, it isn't what the thread is about. If he wants to DIY, then he can. If he decides to buy, thats his choice. I will simply try to answer his questions and let him make his own decision.

 

[OneDummHikk]

And at the rate I get things built, I might actually get something built for myself by 2012

 

[Jadinop]

Needlewheel found. Now the question is does the same volute fit both.
http://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=PS-DM16775

 

[OneDummHikk]

I am guessing that they are the same volute and housing. There is a skimmer thread on RC where he used a Mag7 needlewheel and I asked him about the needlewheel impeller and he says it simply swaps out (Hes a mag pump lover and has many of them from the thread). I may have to spend 30 dollars and find out though.

 

[Fat Tony]

From the looks of that pic, you could just cut some grooves into a stock impeller and get the same results...that's all it looks like to me, just make a couple of small cuts with a coping saw and call it done

 

[three90s&125sump]

Ok I read most of this and one thing that caught my eye was that someone said head presure is not a facter on a recirculation pump.

I may be wrong but I believe it is. Not with GPH of water but with LPH of air. While the head is about the same on both ends of the water intake that is not the case with the air intake. The pump still has to pull air though the entire head of the skimmer.

 

[Alittlefishy]

That looks easy enough, just wonder if it is enough of a needlewheel to chop the bubbles fine enough. If I chop up one of my QO pumps, I think I will cut half the impeller down and put enkamat in it's place, or make my own disk inpeller.

 

[OneDummHikk]

Interesting about the air and makes good sense. Will do some checking on it and edit the other thread to include the air being different on a recirc.

 

[OneDummHikk]

After giving it some more thought, I am not so sure it is. I wish I had an Air Meter (I don't) that I could test it with. It wouldn't be a hard test to do with the right setup. A 6' or 8' pipe, a cap for one end of it, two uniseals to hook a pump to it, a venturi and an air meter.

Cap the "bottom" of the pipe, stand it vertically. Uniseal as close to the bottom as possible - inlet to the pump. Install a second uniseal 18-24" above the first one. That would be the outlet of the pump.

Put just enough water to cover the pump oulet an inch or so. Run it, record the air readings, repeat 8-10 times.
Raise the water level in the pipe 12", repeat the test 10 times.
Keep raising the water level until you reach the limit of the pipe.

As long as the pump setup wasn't changed, only the water level in the pipe, how efficient the pump is, the venturi or anything else was, it wouldn't matter because the differences in the air pull would tell you how much impact it had on it.

My brain is telling me why its going to pull less air but it isn't the water pressure itself but rather what the pump has to do to overcome it in the venturi. Its almost 4am, my brain is half working. When I get it straight in my head, will try to post and explain it.

 

[three90s&125sump]

Here is a simple test. Its not completly acurate because a vacuum is a weeker force than presure. But is you take a piece of half inch tube and b low in it while it is not submersed it is very easy. Take that same hose and put it at the bottom of a bucket and you can feel the presure.

Really it didn't dawn on me at first either but I called sequence to ask them about my orca pump and they said unless you do the alita40 mode to it you can't really run it effectivly over 4 feet of head and I said but its a recirce pump and they said it wasn't a mater of the water flow it was over coming the preasure of the water for airflow. And it then suddenly dawned on me. Go to the sequence website and they have a air flow chart on there for head preasures. I think it also matters on beckette style injectors as well.

 

[Alittlefishy]

I agree and disagree all at the same time with three90s. First of all, the air flow drawn into the pump is dependent on the speed of the water flow across the venturi. Second, the speed of the water flow is dependent on head pressure differences between the input and output of the pump in question. In a CLS setup, the head pressure come from the water in the output pipe being pulled toward earth by gravity and slows the flow of the pump as that amount of water increases; i.e. more height, or larger diameter pipes. In this example, where a water tower is concerned, the "head pressure" is reletively equal on the input and output pipes. This means that the water speed through the pump is not affected very much, if at all, by the amount of water in the skimmer, or the height of the skimmer that the pump is attached to. However, the straw theory is almost right in that it takes more flow to empty the straw of water at deeper depths (overcome more head), but once the air is flowing through the venturi, it flows at the maximum flow of the diameter of the air tube. The reason for all this is that the speed of the water passing by the venturi is responsible for creating the vacuum that draws the air in and the amount of air in is directly dependent on the flow of water past the venture and the amount of vacuum it creates. Finally, my reason for thinking that the water flow through the pump is not affected is that the pump is not below the body of water, it is technically in the body of water.
Finally, again, the person blowing in the straw must overcome the weight of the water creating pressure in the straw, with a pump and venturi, the pressure is removed from the end of the straw and replaced by a vacuum created by the water rushing past it....whew. I'm 99% sure on all this, but I don't have a degree in fluid dynamics, but I do have a degree in avionics and as far as I know a plane flys the same in a low pressure system as in a high pressure system and the vacuum detected on the wings that provides the lift is not dependent on ambient pressure, but on the speed at which air passes the wing. Please feel free to point out any errors that I may have made as I really like fluid dynamics if you can't tell:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao: