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I'm not sure if I would, or could, but Mr. Blue Spot is suffering terribly and I hate seeing him like that. I read that the best method is just to leave him in some of his own water and place it in the freezer. As the water cools, he'd fall asleep.

Opinions everyone!! Would you? Should I? Thanx :(
 

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Tough Call Butch :( I know with my dogs I based my choice on if the bad times were out weighing the good. If he is suffering alot I think I'd "put him to sleep"
 

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I agree, I would use some saltwater and place him in the freezer. I have done it this way and feel it is the best method. It is tough to watch something suffer. :(

Best of luck Butch!!!
whatevva said:
I'm not sure if I would, or could, but Mr. Blue Spot is suffering terribly and I hate seeing him like that. I read that the best method is just to leave him in some of his own water and place it in the freezer. As the water cools, he'd fall asleep.

Opinions everyone!! Would you? Should I? Thanx :(
 

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ya Butch, Maybe you should do it. if it is suffering that much, then put it to peace. Ive uthanized a fish and a cat before and trust me, the animal goes through pretty much no pain and dies peacefully. Maybe its best that we all, after hearing about butch and his BSJF , leave these fish in the ocean where they really belong.
 

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I have to Agree with eveybody that has posted. My wife is a vetrenary technician (nurse) and has to put down many animals although this may be harder for us to take it is really best for the animal not to suffer any more if they have no chance to recover.
 

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freezer
 

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personally I dont like the freezer method because its a slow death.

If Im ever in that situation, I use the bag and hammer method... tho some people have a hard time with that one.
 

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I have had to do that with fish and a lizard. if you do it with the fish you might add a teaspoon of whiskey or some other alcoholic beverage. it will numb him before he dies. sorry to hear, glad you thinking of him.
 

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I'm really not sure about the feeling sensations of a fish... but I know that when I get cold, the last thing I think about is sleeping. (and Ive been COLD)
 

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xaoss23 said:
I'm really not sure about the feeling sensations of a fish... but I know that when I get cold, the last thing I think about is sleeping. (and Ive been COLD)
but Tony, you're a MAMMAL (I think... :D )




http://www.montana.edu/wwwbi/staff/creel/411lec22.pdf

Euthanasia in fish should be considered when a fish is intractably ill or deformed by disease beyond any hope of salvation. It is believed that a fish feels no deep pain because they have no spinothalamic tract. Still if there is no hope of recovery, then euthanasia is a humane choice. Of all the mothods listed throughout the internet and books like Steven Spotte, hypothermia is the preferred method to dispatch a fish, at least in terms of both the potential for pain and avoiding panic in the specimen.

When using freezing to euthanize a fish, make sure there is plenty of water in the fish's container, enough so that the fish can maintain a normal attitude in the vessel. There is no need for the creature to spend its last moments in panic over lack of water or respiratory distress. Place the container in the freezer and close the door, providing darkness. As the poikilotherm (cold blooded animal) loses heat, the enzymes that sustain consciousness are inactivated and they lose the ability to perceive tactile stimuli. If the volume of water is relatively small, all biosystems cease to operate in short order, sparing the creature any distress or (possible) pain.

Alternatives would involve decapitation, or the use of a fish baton for large specimens. For larger fish, a sharp blow with hammer or other blunt toool to the head between the eyes works well and is humane, however, not many folks can bring themselves to do this. After the blunt blow to the brain, the head is removed with a sharp knife or cleaver by chopping just behind the gill covers.


The above comments on the possiblilty of pain while using the freezer method of euthanasia are not true of teleost fish. They have no lateral spinophthalmic tract and lack a neocortex (as used by homonids) to subjectify pain.

Something else to consider with large fishes, first, the logistics of putting a fairly large fish in a freezer, as well as the excessive amount of time it might take to reach subfreezing temps with a large amount of water. In addition, using decapitation to euthanize fishes, especially large ones, in the hands of the timid may not be humane in any form, especially if you have ever seen a timid neophyte chopping the head off a mere two or three ounce pet... :eek: think repetetive sawing action... There's a good bit of bone in the area and the fish will at least suffer considerable anxiety during this procedure, better to use a cleaver to remove the head with a single chop. This would be also better than allowing for the use of a baton in the hands of the inexperienced. Although this may be a little disturbing on first thought, it is better than allowing someone to close their eyes, take a hammer, turn their head and whack the fish timidly on the head expecting it to die. I am sure this only pisses the fish off.



Doc Johnson (Vet) said:
...fish are not unconscious at thirty something degrees during winter. The premise becomes that the fish in the freezer is also conscious at thirty something degrees while it dies. This would be true if the fish came from an icey pond and you tried to freeze it to death. If the fish were from your living room, it would be shut down with the first twenty degrees drop in water temperature. The reason for this is "iso-enzymes" - It has to do with how poikilotherms, (cold blooded critters) survive in hot, then frigid environments.
In warm weather, cold blooded fish use warm-water enzymes. As it gets cold, they produce and use more and more "iso-enzymes" which function in ice water. This is gradual and natural. A rapid rise in temperature destabilizes the cold-water iso enzymes structure and the fish dies. The opposite is true of the warm weather poikilotherm enzyme system.
see: http://www.life.uiuc.edu/ib/104/syllabus.htmlhttp://www.life.uiuc.edu/bio104/L11Notes.html

Interaction-5-9.pdf

Fish should be spared discomfort, anxiety, and potential fear during their last moments. My discussion of the physiology is not to say that fish don't feel discomfort, or interpret anxious situations, because they obviously do respond to these conditions with anxiety, if for nothing else than for their survival instinct. However, enthanasia for the sake of the fish should be considered as a means to alleviating any suffering that would otherwise be endured by the fish if they continue to live without hope of recovery. Whatever you do, do it for the fish, not for the sake of convenience. Make it as short, sharp and as swift as possible.


Lots of good info taken from Doc Johnson's site, HTH.
 

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I agree with you Butch. If they're suffering and the quality of life is horrible, I would just "put him to sleep." I did this with my 10 year old goldfish. No sense in letting something suffer like that. It's a very very very hard thing to do, trust me I know. Our animals are like family to us. Dog, cat, fish, bird...doesn't really matter in my book. All are hard to lose, just some we get more attached to than others.
 

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Sorry about Mr. Blue Spot, Butch. He is such a neat fish, despite his jumping adventures. I'm sure you will do the right thing by him.

Dick
 

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I have a comment for discussion and consideration.

Fish instinctually avoid danger, and can learn to avoid danger.

They likely can feel pain, but how can we know this? Is there any model to test pain responses in fish?

Suffering I would conjecture is uniquely human. Suffering requires self awareness. No fish are self aware, so they cannot suffer.
 

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Butch- I've done the freezer method as well.

You certainly have wide variety of answeres here. It is tough on you, no matter what way you go :(
 
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