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Still think your clownfish needs an anemone?

11K views 15 replies 10 participants last post by  carolina98 
#1 ·
#5 ·
I know I posted this one before but it's a cool pic of a clown in a closed up lobophyton leather in the middle of the night. The pic was taken by shining a flashlight on the subject to allow the camera to focus then snapping it.


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Bill Esposito
bespo@cereal.mv.com
JAqua for the AquaController 2
http://cereal.mv.com/jaqua.html
My Reef Page
http://cereal.mv.com/reef
The box said "Use Win 95 or better", I chose better so I run OS/2!

[This message has been edited by bill-e (edited 02-11-2001).]
 
#6 ·
#7 ·
If clown fish are so eager to adopt to a non-anemone host , then why are you so worried about anemones populations being wipped out from the aquarium trade ? Less than 1\10 of 1 percent of life that has ever lived on this planet is alive today . Extinction is a fact of life . In the words of DR. Malcolm " life will find a way "
 
#8 ·
Hi new guy,

why are you so worried about anemones populations being wipped out from the aquarium trade ?
You must have me confused with someone else.
Some people are under the impression that clownfish NEED an anemone in a reef tank. That is not the case. While they may need them in the wild they do just fine without them in our reef tanks. I don't have any problems with people having anemones in their tanks, I just wish they would buy captive bred.

Rick
 
#9 ·
new guy:
If clown fish are so eager to adopt to a non-anemone host , then why are you so worried about anemones populations being wipped out from the aquarium trade ? Less than 1\10 of 1 percent of life that has ever lived on this planet is alive today . Extinction is a fact of life . In the words of DR. Malcolm " life will find a way "
Wow!

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Bill Esposito
bespo@cereal.mv.com
JAqua for the AquaController 2
http://cereal.mv.com/jaqua.html
My Reef Page
http://cereal.mv.com/reef
The box said "Use Win 95 or better", I chose better so I run OS/2!
 
#10 ·
"If clown fish are so eager to adopt to a non-anemone host , then why are you so worried about anemones populations being wipped out from the aquarium trade ? Less than 1\10 of 1 percent of life that has ever lived on this planet is alive today . Extinction is a fact of life . In the words of DR. Malcolm " life will find a way"
Eager isn't the correct phrase when dealing with clowns hosting other than anemones. A clown and anemone combo arent a sure bet for bonding, nor are there guarentees that a particular fish will host with other animals.
The reason for concern for the wild anemones is they have a very poor track record in captivity. While a small percentage are maintained with some success the vast majority of them die. Moratality rates after 6 months arent all that impressive and really dismal after a year. The various species of host anemones are long lived, apperently some can live over a hundred years. Given that the lifespan of hosting pomacentrids in the wild is maybe 2 yrs, that means the removal of ONE host anemone has impacted at least 50 generations of fish.That's not allowing for multiple grouping often seen in pics of mayure host anemones in the wild. They arent as common as the small coast anemones we usually see in massive abundance on a coast visit.
"Extinction is a fact of life" No extinction is a fact of DEATH. The fact that we are all going to die at aome point is not a valid reason for taking anothers life. It may be just an anemone to some , but it is a link in a complicated and amazing web of intertwined life, that reaches far beyond the anemone itself.
One of the joys of reefkeeping is learning more about that process, and gaining the wisdom to pursue the hobby while having the smallest impact possible on the wild resource

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I dont advocate holding marine creatures for ransom but......since you asked

Doug, plank owner
http://hellreef.homestead.com/index.html
www.thereeftank.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000001.html

[This message has been edited by Doug1 (edited 02-11-2001).]
 
#11 ·
extiction not a fact of life ? tell that to the dinosaurs. Also the anemone living over 100 years hmm who is that old person that has tracked the same anemone for 100+ years . The reason most of you antianemites are the way you are is because you were attracted to the sybiotic relationship between clowns/anemone when you first started this adventure but you had a poor system and your anemone died . Forever burnt.You upgraded your system for corals(suitable for most anemones) but still scorned from your first anemone you decided to jump on the bandwagon and become an antianemite . But unless everything in your system is captive breed are you not destroying a reef . Corals die and deposit their calcium for the reef . Fish and inverts have a purpose too. So if nature is so delicate then why buy anything unless it is captive breed . If you people realy want to know more about the earth please take a biology, zoology, geology, and an anthropology class at your local university.You will find that it is not what the "Tree Hugers " whould have you to believe. And also anemones are now hosting more than clowns and dominos in the wild .I saw them host cardis and hawkfish . This will defintly change things just like our environment is for ever changing . And one last example is the weapon testing in Horges neck of the woods, that happend not even 50 years ago, couldn't keep life from finding a way.
 
#12 ·
Extinction is a fact of death, not life but that is semantics. If you read my reply you'll notice I didn' state that they live hundreds of years as is currently theorized. I am not a marine biologist so I won't state that as a fact since I can't back it up. However the removal of a host anemone is a fact, one that certainly wasn't lost on you if you studied Marine Bio. Aas a matter of fact while others may be attracted to the anemone/clown relationship it hasn't been a motivating factor in my 25 year fascination with marine aquariums. And as a matter of fact the majority of the "live Rock" in my tank as wellas most of the corals are fragged from other colonies so I can say that I have a fairly low impact reef. As far as losing anemones and shying away after improving conditions, thats your opinion, but the simple fact is that most host anemones do not do well for the majoriy of people who try to keep them. Some have good luck with them while others,who are accomplished reefers, dont. So far I have seen no formula that says if you do this,this, and this, you can keep anemones alive and well. Its just like Dendronepthea and Gonipora. For everyone who keeps them alive for more than a year there are who knows how many that die. Esxtenction may be part of the natural order of things and some organisms may survive and evolve but we are talking a time frame that human lives are but a second of. Using extinction as an excuse to play with things for your entertainment is not a very ethical approach.
We are trying to teach people to examine the relationship between the hobby and the wild reefs and to think about the impact. Peeersonally on the one hand it wouldn't bother me if some animals werent collected anymore but on the otherhand I deplore regulatory agencies stepping in and running my life. Unavoidable though, that is a fact of life. Encouraging people to continue keeping things in the face of reason is one of the reasons the hobby will get more restricted as time goes on.
And no I am not some whiny tree hugger, I am a near 50 yr old ******* former lumber mill worker who has seen the effects of ecoterrorism and politically correct brainwashing.
The whole point that you seem to have missed was that clowns dont need anemones to survive and there are other animals they will host with if thats what someone longs for. Anemones are one of the creatures that I think arent for everyone for the reasons stated, and I will continue to dispense that opinion till someone finds the key to keeping them successfully. BTW thats the opinion of Doug the reefer not Doug the admin. The boards only function is to provide a place for exchange of info to promote the hobby, enjoy

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I dont advocate holding marine creatures for ransom but......since you asked:)
Doug, plank owner
http://hellreef.homestead.com/index.html
www.thereeftank.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000001.html
 
#13 ·
In nature, the purpose of the sybiotic relationship between Clownfish and anenomes is to provide the anenome with food scraps from the Clown's feeding and protect the Clown from predators. Neither of these is necessary in the reef tank. Clownfish do exhibit a dependent behaviour in the aquarium in seeming to "need" the comfort of some type of host to wallow in. Soft corals, mushrooms or even rock structures or oyster shell clusters often provide this security blanket. Mine have used all these and now like Ricordea mushrooms or my Frogspawn as their hosts.

That nature dictates all living creatures eventually die is no reason for needlessly accelerating the process. Our reefs and oceans have great capacity for renewing the life within but this capacity is not infinite. That natural disasters disturb the balance and sometimes leads to extinction of whole species is beyond our control. We do have control over the individual creatures we choose for our aquariums and should make choices from those animals that have good chance of surviving our care.

There are many examples of animals that have very poor survivability in hobby aquariums: Mandarins, Cleaner Wrasse, Tangs in small aquariums, certain corals, Anenomes and the list goes on. That these are kept successfully in some instances is no justification for deliberately introducing them into systems in which they have virtually no chance of survival. A new reef with a new reefer as caretaker is not the place for these hard to keep animals.

Like Doug, I am painfully aware that our hobby is in danger of over regulation and restrictions because of irresponsible and unlimited harvesting of reef creatures. The only way to avoid or lessen the impact is for each of us to act responsibly and conscientiously in our own choices. Each anenome collected is ultimately destined for a single aquarium, one at a time. Until the individual demand is curtailed, suppliers will continue to over collect these animals with a resulting depletion of the reef.

There are many gorgeous creatures with which we can build beautiful reefs without wasting those less hardy. Tank bred and aquacultured fish and corals are becoming more available and are renewable resources.

From a very practical standpoint, I advocate reefers, especially the new or less experienced, make careful choices that have the best chance of survival in order to lessen the usual frustrations that come with building an ecosystem from scratch. Its tough enough to keep animals healthy in a new reef tank without adding to the frustration by introducing something that is not likely to make it.

Again, like Doug, these are my personal observations and opinions but I think they are consistent witht the philosophy of this board in particular and conscientious reefkeeping in general.
Dick


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http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000005.html
 
#15 ·
Doug for the most part I totaly agree with you . You are a very lerned man and I do respect your knowlege that could have only been gained through your decades of experiance . I have certain ethics that I belive in . I dont belive that giant carpets should be removed and executed in DR. Mangelas' aquarium . Are any large anemone , only the small buds . And I do belive that there are to many anemones being abducted form the wild But that is OUR fought . WE need to be more proactive with our local fish shops and try to discourage their rape of the land for a freeking buck . And your most right about their beeing no uniform thought on how to keep an anemone . Also I agree that new reefers should not atempt to keep anemones at first but what MY MAIN CONCERN IS ME HAVING THE RIGHT TO KEEP ANEMONES . You are right about "the powers to be" do not need to legislate everything . I no know how crusaders who have no real direction in life can put pressures on legislators and ruin a good hobby for everyone .Reefers are also the biggest skapegoat for do-gooders.They think that no life should be taking form the ocean and it is our fought that the ocean is being destroyed(realy just evolving,adapting) . I bet their are more pediphiles in this country than aquarist.And they do far more dammage. It should be (and is) your right to choose or not to choose . Me and my buds at my local fish have had pretty good succes with them so it can be done but like you said newbies should be discouraged until they have the proper setup . My lfs want even sell you an anemone unless you have the so far determined means(lighting ,geatH2O, expierice w/marine tanks) of taking care of them . As for the main point you were making, YES clowns do not need an anemone in your fish tank . And if you have captive breed clowns they certainly dont need anemones because it is almost certain death for the tentacled wonder. Im sorry if this debate has caused anyone to lose any sleep are nearly stroke out from high blood pressure but it is obvious that whatever side you are on this has benn benfical.
 
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