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2K views 9 replies 5 participants last post by  Doug1 
#1 ·
I was wondering if anybody else has any suggestions on what i'm about to do to my 55 gallon salt. I've had it up for 3+ yrs and during that time the nitrates have slowly risen to rates that are undetectable by any test kit i've used. No matter how many water changes i've done, it never gets back onto the charts (140+). So I've decided to drain it down to deep enough for the fish to swim in (triggers and eels, guessing that's why the nitrates rose so hi as i never missed a water change), and vacuuming 3/4 of the bottom, and at some point adding new live rock. I've tried everything, from de-nitrate, to leaving lights off and cleaning, and doing constant water changes. The ammonia, nitrites never seem to rise either. If anybody else has ANY suggestions PLEASE let me know as I am all out of ideas. Thanks.


WAGZ
 
#2 ·
WAGZ,
What fish and eels do you have and how big are they? My suspicion is that you may have such a high bioload with these animals that a 55 can't handle.
Doing such drastic work with the fish in the tank can set off ammonia spikes or release hydrogen sulfide from the substrate that can be very harmful to your fish. When undertaking such major tank work it is best to remove the fish to temporary holding tanks.
Please give us some more specifics about your setup.
Even one adult Trigger or eel is usually too much for a 55. It may be time for a bigger tank!
Dick
 
#3 ·
Hey fish, I have a Picasso, or Humu Humu, heard them called both, an undulated trigger, a yellow tang that has been 3/4 dead for the past 1 1/2 yrs, (both triggers are approx 2 in, and the tang is 3 in), a tomato clown (2in), and a 20 in. snowflake eel. Definitely not too much of a load, only about 29 in of fish, and 2 filters running on it, 3 in of sand atleast, 50 lbs of live rock, and that should about do it. let me knw if u need anything else about the setup. Thanks again.


WAGZ
 
#4 ·
Sounds like too much bio load to me. I'm shooting for less than 6 4-inch max size fish in a 58 reef ready with 3 inches sand, 100lb of rock and lots of plants(algae). Most will max at 3 or under, such as 6-line wrasse or scooters. You indicate 2 filters, how much crculation does your tank have? And is the rock kept fish-only style (white) or is it algae encrusted and reef-style? makes quite a bit of difference. The amount of current over the rock greatle effects what it can eliminate nitrate-wise, and so does the algae encrusting things.


Aside, wondering where you do your local shopping? Try Under The Sea on Park avenue in Des Moines if you havn't already. I don't work there, but I really like them and they are quite knowlegeable (sp).
 
#5 ·
Wags what does 3/4 dead for a year and a half mean? A yellow tang that old should be bigger, but with nitrate levels off the scale it isn't going to be healthy. Aside from the fact that I agreee youre tank is over stocked what are you using to mix up your saltwater with, tap, RO, ?

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I dont advocate holding marine creatures for ransom but......since you asked:)
Doug, plank owner
http://hellreef.homestead.com/index.html
 
#6 ·
WAGZ,
The suspects for your nitrates are the eel and the two filters. The eel alone can produce more waste than a 55 can handle and if you have filters that use mechanical media, these trap detritus and organic material that break down into nitrates unless cleaned or replaced every few days.
The Triggers are still small but will grow very large.
The generic rule of thumb for saltwater is 1" of fish per 5 gallons of water. Even this is too liberal if the fish are heavy bodied or big eaters, such as the Triggers and Snowflake.
How old is your Snowflake? I understand they can reach about 30" as adults. I have a baby Chainlink (8") in a 38 FOWLR by itself but it will go into a 6' tank as it grows.
IMHO, for the fish you have, you really do need a 6' tank.
Dick
 
#7 ·
Twenty nine inches of fish would require a minimum tank size of 150 gallons. Saltwater general rule is 1" of fish per 5-7 gallons of water. You are WAY overstocked and you will never be able to reduce the nitrates with that many animals crowded into that small tank. For what it's worth, there is a restaurant where I live that maintains (if you want to call it that) a saltwater tank with two eels. It is a 125-gallon with a green moray and a snowflake, both grown and the tank has a divider in it. The eels stay curled up and miserable as there is no room for movement (there is live rock also). The Moray is dying and now refuses to eat. Despite all my talking to the owner, he thinks his tank is perfect (?)!!!

In order for your animals to thrive, you simply must give them room to do so. It is very cruel to crowd them in such a way, and although yours may not be at their adult size, they soon will be, if they live long enough. If you will reduce the load on your tank to the recommended 1" of fish per 5-7 gallons and do several water changes you will notice a decrease in your nitrates, but it will be a slow decrease. In my opinion, taking out enough water for your fish to just swim in while you correct a problem means removing NO water, since they don't have enough water to swim in already.

I know this sounds negative, but it is not meant as a flame, just constructive criticism. Your fish simply do not have enough room. Your undulated trigger will eventually eat or kill everyone else as they belong in a species only tank and your clownfish doesn't stand a chance for much longer. The next best thing to getting some of the fish out so the rest of them can live, is to upgrade to a larger tank, but for the particular fish you are keeping, something like a 300-gallon would be sensible, considering the adult size of your critters. Hope that helps and good luck


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Through perseverance, even the snail made it to the ark!
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hub/4898/salt.html
 
#8 ·
This tank has been set up like this for 3 years, and has only had the problem for about 1 of that. These fish have all been in there for that amount of time, with only one emperor on it, which i added about 6 mths ago to help. The nitrates never rose until about that time as they never went above 20. As for 1" of fish per 5-7 gallon tank???? Is that really true, I was always told 1 in per 2gallong tank.....Please let me know as then most of my tanks are overstocked, as I have about 30 in my 58, and it's doing excellent. Thanks to everyone who has replied though and I will look into a larger tank....if it's needed.
 
#9 ·
Yes, this IS the general rule, 1" of fish per 5-7 gallons for saltwater. 1" of fish per 2 gallons applies to freshwater aquariums. What adds to the problems of your overstocking is the types of fishies you are keeping. I think the "per gallons" rule is especially important with fish that are known to be "messy"...meaning large waste producers. In other words, overstocking with damsels most likely would not present the bioload problems that overstocking with triggerfish, lionfish, etc. would do.

I think one of the reasons you're experiencing problems now is that your fish have grown to larger sizes and are producing even more waste and with the fish you have it is near impossible to maintain a decent clean up crew to get rid of the mess.

I would definitely encourage you to upgrade to a larger tank if this is possible. Also, ask around for some other people's opinions as to the 1" of fish per 5-7 gallons...I think most people will tell you the same.


Also, I honestly believe that you will wake up one morning to find your undulated trigger living alone...with everyone else chewed up! Undulated's are so beautiful, but have the nastiest of personalities as adults. They remind me of damsels with the size to back it up...lol.

As for your nitrates in the meantime, the only effective way I've found to remove them is through water changes. If water changes are not making a difference, then you are going to have to make changes in your tank. I know this will be a pain in the neck, but you'll be glad when you're all done and your tanks are healthy again
Hope this helps and good luck


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Through perseverance, even the snail made it to the ark!
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hub/4898/salt.html
 
#10 ·
The carrying capacity of a salt water tank is greatly reduced in comparison to the same size freshwater tank. The oxygen ca[acity of SW is reduced and the ramifications of the nitrogen cycle in SW are more complex. Ammonia is extremely toxic at the ideal pH for a SW tank(8.2-4). I suspect the saving grace here is that due to the reaction of the CO2 from the fish forming carbonic acid along with the acidic by-products from waste breakdown the pH in the tank has drifted down(as it will always tend to do) to the point that the ammonia toxicity is suppressed some but you're getting the dangerously high level of nitrate that appear to be adversly affecting the fish in your tank. Aas I stated earlier the fish you have listed should be bigger considering the ages you say they are.
IMO/IME a 20" eel and a near grown Tomatoe Clown would be the max load I would consider in this tank. I know a 55g seems big, but really it isnt. After years of being around SW fish and having gotten into reef tanks in the last 3 or 4 years I gotta tell you I think the standard 55g tank is one of the biggest mistakes in the SW hobby. People start with smaller tanks and move up to 55g and suddenly your up in the bigs, now we can have all them fish we want to keep, Unfortunatly it isnt so. So many people move up to 55 from a 29 for instance thinking wow I can have a lot more fish now, when in reality it will add a comfort level to the fish that were crowded anyway and might at best support one more clown sized fish comfortably. We need to keeep in mind the adult body size when choosing fish to stock an aquarium. You mention you only have 29" of fish at this point. If they are all that size after 2 years theat is an indicator there is some amiss. The eel could be 3'+ and twice the body mass it has now. Both the triggers would grow to near 12" (ideally) The tang can get to about 8" and a tomatoe clown over 4"
Even if you had a 240 gallon tank eventually the aggressive personallity of the undulate will win out, thinning the heard. I really recommend returning most of these and researching and redoing the tank. After getting the parameters in line restock it slowly and consider the needs of the fish you cant do with out

------------------
I dont advocate holding marine creatures for ransom but......since you asked:)
Doug, plank owner
http://hellreef.homestead.com/index.html
www.thereeftank.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000001.html
 
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