help with PH issues.

Pillz · 08-07-2006, 11:31 PM

Alright my tank has been up and going for about 2 months now, maybe a little more. The rock in my tank has been cured for about 8-9 months. (not sure if that would make a difference) I usually does 2.5 gallons of kalk constantly all the time. even then I had ph problems.. It seems like the second I stop dripping or stop dosing my tanks PH drops to 7.6-7.8 I just recalibrated my monitor and am thinking about hooking up my extra controller too just to make positivly sure its right. Since I have stopped using kalk (past 3 weeks) my tank has had a huge cyano outbreak, and my ph has gotten worse. I wanted to try to start using something just for my PH so I picked up a bottle of seachem reef buffer. It says that you should only have to use it weekly or bi weekly. Well since I started using it about 2 weeks ago I have used up about 3/4 of the bottle that says it treats 2000 gallons. even then my ph is contstanly up and down. What should I do?

Also I would like to add while I was dripping kalk 24/7 I was also overdosing my tank with Bionic. My calcium and alk have always been fine, calcuim is around 450-500 everytime and alk has never been below 7.5 dKh.

I am mixing up new water for a water change as I type. Im also switching over from IO salt to oceanic salt, so that should help up my PH, but Im not sure if that will keep it stable. Would an airstone help? I have heard of people running them at night to help, but havent heard any good or bad comment with long term use. I think the swing is really starting to affect some of my corals so I would like to get this taken care of and stop turning my water into a chemical soup.

jenajet · 08-08-2006, 12:46 AM

I honestly have never had to use any kind of buffer. I use oceanic always have. my ph starts at 8.0 in the morning and gets to 8.2 by afternoon. Calcium and alk always good as well. When I first set the tank up I bought all these supplments and have never had to use them. Hope the oceanic works for you as it has for me. FYI I currently have the 24 gallon aquapod and no skimmer Dont know if that makes a difference.

Pillz · 08-08-2006, 01:03 AM

I am running a 30 cube with a aprox 10 gallon sump without a skimmer right now. I had one on it and ripped it off bc it kept flooding my room. I have a euro reef that i should have in by this weekend but I dont think that will help with the ph. Maybe the cyano though!

parsonsaj · 08-08-2006, 06:12 AM

Well Pillz I'm right there with you... I can't seem to keep my pH above 7.7 consistently to save my life. I thought it might be because I wasn't buffering my topoff water but I use the Seachem buffer on that now when I fill up the reservoir so that isn't it...

theplatypus · 08-08-2006, 06:49 AM

How is the ventilation in your room? This screams of an abundance of co2 to me.

Loverotties · 08-08-2006, 06:55 AM

I also use Seachem buffer once in a while with Kalk.

Stanfill Reef · 08-08-2006, 08:15 AM

I agree with theplatypus, sounds like CO2 buffering. What type of aeration are you using? If you were to add a bubble wand to your sump, you could strip off excess CO2 from your water.

abigtroutt · 08-08-2006, 08:20 AM

Check your magnesium.. I had a hard time keeping my Alk, Ca and Ph stable, but it seemed when I started to add Mg to my tank my PH, Alk and Ca became more stable and easier to control. Don't know if it will work for you but it did help my tank.

GeorgeW · 08-08-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abigtroutt

Check your magnesium.

This is one thing I learned this time around that I had no clue about the last tank I had. Magnesium is an integral part of the calcium process it seems and dosing kalk, unlike other methods, doesn't add magnesium back.

Here's a bit of an article on the subject: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php#14

Pillz · 08-08-2006, 12:00 PM

Last night I did about a 5 gallon water change, today my PH right as I turn on the lights is 7.8 Im going to check my mag. right now, from what I remember from my last water testing my mag was a little low, not a ton. It was like 1200 instead of 1350. I have b-ionic so I can add that, or I also have a bag of epsons salt so if its badd Ill add a little of that to my new water. Is there anything that can really rid a tank of a PH problem? Am i just stuck with this until I put in a reactor? One this is I just use RODI water for my top off, should I swich that over to Kalk water?

As for ventilation, Its in my dining room and there is an bar between it and the kitchen and the utility closet is right there also so I would think there is good ventilation.

theplatypus · 08-08-2006, 12:19 PM

Just noticed that you're running skimmerless. If you don't have significant surface agitation this will prevent gas exchange. ie excess co2

GLXTRIX · 08-08-2006, 01:25 PM

just make sure if you do use the epsom salts, dont do more than 100ppm per day.

goodfortune · 08-08-2006, 05:46 PM

Hey Pillz:

A few comments, based on my experience and observations:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillz

... seems like the second I stop dripping or stop dosing my tanks PH drops to 7.6-7.8 I just re-calibrated my monitor...

Many times when we think we are having pH problems, were are really having pH monitor problems. Even though you have just re-calibrated, I'd go ahead and run a calibration check with some borax solution; you can find info about the borax calibration check if you search previous posts and archives here at TRT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillz

...Well since I started using it about 2 weeks ago I have used up about 3/4 of the bottle that says it treats 2000 gallons. even then my ph is contstanly up and down...Also I would like to add while I was dripping kalk 24/7 I was also overdosing my tank with Bionic. My calcium and alk have always been fine, calcuim is around 450-500 everytime and alk has never been below 7.5 dKh...

Sounds like an Mg deficiency, IME. I have run into Mg problems when I used 2-part for Ca/Alk supp. AND got behind on regular water changes. With low Mg, it is very hard to maintain stable Ca and Alk levels. Once I got Mg and Alk corrected (and my Ca reactor back on line), I went from having pH range of 7.8-8.2 to 8.1-8.3, between lights-on and lights-off.

Try to maintain your Mg at least 3X what your Calcium is; 1250-1300 is a good target for Mg, IME. 7.5 dkH is a little low for a reef system; 8-12 dKH is the typical recommended range for Alk. The Alk in my tank is usually ~10 dKH.

Also, Ca/Alk have to be in balance with one another, and at stable levels, for good coral health and growth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillz

...I am mixing up new water for a water change as I type. Im also switching over from IO salt to oceanic salt, so that should help up my PH, but Im not sure if that will keep it stable. Would an airstone help?

I think you should stick with IO salt, as it has a better balance of Ca and Alk than Oceanic, also IME. You should definitely aerate newly mixed ASW for at least a few hours before you use it, because aeration will allow your ASW to absorb ambient CO2, helping your ASW to build up its buffering capacity. If excess CO2 is a problem were you live, putting an airstone in your sump may help.

HTH,
Michael

goodfortune · 08-08-2006, 05:57 PM

Pillz:

In case you haven't, check out this reef chemistry calculator:

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ejdieck1/chem_calc3.html

It can help you figure out how much of commonly used chemicals (some off the supermarket shelf) that you can use to raise Ca, Alk, and Mg.

Also, check out this article about Mg in reef aquaria by Randy Holmes-Farley of reefcentral:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php

- Michael

Pillz · 08-08-2006, 09:23 PM

hm, ill do a chemical test to see if my moniter is off. I actually thought that that may be the cause for my problem..