New To Saltwater Tanks, Let Alone Reefs. HELP

[cbrenn71]

First of all, first post here. Lots of great info so far!

I have what i would say is novice experience at fish tanks. I helped to maintain a fresh water tank during the past few years of college. However, it was fresh water. I know there is a huge difference in how to care for the two, but i recently took a new job, and now i'm relocated, and have TONS of spare time. I am very interested in getting into the reef scene.

I am interested more in the nano aspect because i think, while it is more easily to have sudden water problems due to chemical shifts, i feel the tanks are more like a living picture. They are small and that is what attracts me to it. I am specifically looking at around 12 gallons or smaller. I would like to build most of my equipment myself (as much as possible). I have found some good how-to's and have a decent knowledge on how to make a lot, but i have not seen a good write up or read an article on here that tells me EVERYTHING i will need for a tank of this size.

One of my big concerns is, with such a small tank, do i really need MH lighting? Can i get away with a 50/50 flourescent? I plan on accomodating only a few clowns, a few anemonies (one for each clown), and various other small creatures that will live on my live rock.

Could someone please point me in the right direction on exactely what i need. I dont necessarily need the best (for example- if i can use something other than MH lighting, i would prefer that if it will keep the anemonies alive and well).

Also, i am totally clueless as to the whole tank drilling. I understand the wet/dry filters, but am unsure what the tank holes are for exactley.

Could you also tell me the relative cost of this? Like i said, i dont need the best of everything, and plan to make much of my own equipment to help cut down on cost. i will try and find a picture or two of exactely what i have in mind. In the mean time, sorry for the long post, and i hope i can learn a ton from this site.

[dobejazz]

Welcome to TRT! 12g may be a little small for 2 clowns Some Clowns get quite large! you can get away with PC lighting and use a soft coral for the clowns to host in instead of an anenome. Anenomes are difficult to keep and the tank should be up and stable for 6 months to a year before adding them to the tank.

[gwen_o_lyn]

Welcome to TRT! Like Kelli said, I don't recommend an anemone for a beginner and most will require metal halides.

Best way to filter a tank is with live rock and a skimmer- that is all you need. People drill tanks to add a sump. A sump gives you an area to hide all your equipment and also adds to the total water volume of the system which will create more stability. With a 12 gallon tank, it's really not necessary to drill, but certainly can be done.

Here is my thread to my 12 gal that I'm working on for the nano buildoff
http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60368 *page 5 has a current pic*
In case you don't wanna read all that, I have a 12 gallon glass tank, with an AquaC Remora skimmer, 2 mini-jet pumps at 150gph each, a 50w heater, a few inches of sand, about 15lbs of live rock, and a metal halide light fixture. I'm hoping to keep SPS in that tank which requires metal halide lighting. There are plenty of options for PC lighting for small tanks if you don't want MHs.

Plan to cycle your tank for about 8-12 weeks or until your cycle is over. Patience is very important in this hobby along with buying a really good skimmer.

Let us know any other questions you may have

[cbrenn71]

what is the price of equipment i'd be looking at.

I'd like to actually make my own tank, if that is possible. what all is needed for that?

also, i would like to have a sump, and was told by my LFS that i WOULD NEED a wet/dry. if that's the case, i will build my own. the skimmer is housed in the wet/dry correct?

it would be great if someone could make me a list that tells me EXACTELY what i DO NEED and what i DONT NEED to effectively run a nano. i will attach a picture a tank sketch i have in mind (granted no dimensions, but is it possible to have glass bent the way i'd like).

[cbrenn71]

basically, i'd like the style of a nano cube.... i might be interested in a tank that has about a 3:1 aspect ratio of length to depth, such as a 3 foot long by 12 inches tall by 12 inches deep. i'd prefer the nano cube 12 gallon style though, because i dont want a ton of rock. maybe i do. i dont know. lol???

it's not possible to house two clowns in a 12 gallon?

[cbrenn71]

i'd like to keep the clowns small. is one breed better than another, i know i looked at tomatos the other day, they are too big for my liking.

is bigger the better way to go? i'm confused. please help.

[darthteddy]

The 12 gallon nano cubes by JBJ are an excellent starter tank. They come pretty much good to go out of the box although there are tons of DIY projects out therre. Some of these include skimmers and refugiums (place for algeas and things of that nature) in the back compartments, lighting mods and all sorts of cool stuff like that. The delux model is the better way to go just because of the higher lighting. For rock just get as much as you feel comfortable with. Get some and arrange it the way you like (known as aquascaping) and go from there. Be sure to research curing and all that good stuff as well when you look into what part of the ocean you want your rock to come from. There is Fiji wich is in my opinion the best. Very rounded forms and lots of purple and green and red coloring. Carribian is cheaper an tends to be flattened and white or tan. Tonga is branchy and is very tubelike. There are also nano packs available wich house a variety of the types in smaller pieces just right for smaller tanks. A good thing to invest in now would be an RO or an RODI unit. These filter almost all the impuritys in your water. Another thing you need to look at is salt. Different brands offer different things but ive used kent marine from the start and had no problems. A good testing kit is a must. The main things you need to test for in a starter tank are nitrates, nitrites, ammoina, PH, calcium (not a must but it cant hurt) and things like that. Hagen(spelling) offers an excellent "Master" test kit wich houses all the tests for fresh and saltwater in a handy plastic carrying case. A hydrometer is used to test the salinity or specific gravity. A sump is optional. On the JBJ Nano Cube its not necessary in my opinion as long as you keep up water changes. A protein skimmer is now considered a must have although i do not have one.

As far as live stock you dont wat to overstock such a small tank. More fish equals more waste which can lead to a crash. Depending on the type of clown you get it is my personal belife that you could get two but they would have to be your only fish and you would need to keep up water changes. Certain breeds of them would not be suitable for such a small tank. Tomoates, marrons especially would outgrow a tank that size rapidly. A pair of tru percs or false percs would be allright if you bought them when they were juviniles. I agree with the others in the sence that an anenome is not a good starter invert. Clowns will host things other then anenomes. I have seen them host various LPS corals, Zooanthids, and even just a patch of algae.

Thats all i can think of for the moment but as more things hit me ill post them as well. Dont be afraid to ask questions. At this forum especially everyone is kind and generally dont flame people. There is no stupid question in my opinion.
~Darth

[darthteddy]

BTW Welcome to TRT

[gwen_o_lyn]

I wouldn't get a wet/dry... only a top of the line skimmer is all you need.

[dobejazz]

also a sump can be a rubbermade container or a 10g tank you def, don't need a wet/dry

[cbrenn71]

you can make a skimmer yourself right? no need to go spend 200 dollars at a LFS?

[dobejazz]

Correct Search "geoff skimmer" here on TRT he has a few different plans in the DIY section

[cbrenn71]

how much am i looking to get into the game. . . i want to know a rough cost not including fish, but for my tank, i will make my own skimmer, rock, my little creatures....etc.

what is a good rough estimate?

[davidsreef]

A rough estimate used by some people is to expect to spend anywhere from $40-$50 per gallon of water in your tank. I have a 20g display with a 20g sump, and with all of the pumps, rock, fish, corals, MH light, and all misc. equipment it came to about $48 per gallon, and I am not finished stocking with corals. So I suppose when I am finished it will be roughly 50 per gallon. But remember that I did MH and a sump (the sump was DIY, and all equipment was used) and have a few spendy corals, so I probably will have spent more than you. If you have a 12g * 45 $/gal. = $540. It may be a little less since you want to do a lot of DIY, but it may not as well. Some DIY ends up being just as expensive or more expensive than buying good used equipment. Just keep that in mind, yes DIY can be cheaper, but not always. Read the message boards on here and other places to get an idea on the work and equipment required to do a specific DIY project. Good luck!
P.S. if you need some help or advice you can PM me.

[darthteddy]

It depends on your resourcefulness. Denpending on what tank you get it can run anywhere from 10 bucks at a yard sale to the deluxe nano cube which is 150 bucks or so. Rocks runs about 10 bucks a pound for th best stuff depending on where you go. A bucket of salts like 50. A DIY skimmer is about 100 bucks if i can remember right most of the price bing in the pump. I dont know anything about it but for such a small tank a CBR back pack skimmer might do the job. Any one know more about those. Power heads can run anywhere from 20 bucks to 50. RO units like 150-200 bucks new. Lighting for another tanks can be again anywhere from 75 to 200 bucks plus. Stands and hoods can be made. Heater be bout 30 bucks for a good one. Test kits like 50 bucks. Supplements around 50 bucks for everything. I might be forgetting sometihng. Again the JBJ Nano Cube comes with lighting so thats a plus. Just a rough guideline. PM me if you got questions. And your LFS or people you know or yardsales allways have good deals. Remember NOTHING WITH COPPER as far as your DIY stuff. Just something to remember.