Are chemical nitrate and phosphate removers safe for the reef?

Reefyone · 03-21-2006, 07:21 AM

I found different opinions on the net about using nitrate- or phosphate- bounding compounds: from highly desirable to playing with fire. I have Purigen and PhosGuard, no problems yet in fish aquarium, but for the reef?
Any thoughts?
P.S. I know about role of water maintenance and skimmer efficiency

pastina · 03-21-2006, 08:23 AM

this is just my opinion and not from any hardcore facts, but i believe that nitrate reducing media is safe if done when nitrates are at a medium level (around 40ppm) when you get a higher reading than that and then drastically lower it using nitrate media the outcome can be a shock to the corals and not good.
phosphate removers i wouldnt use, they arent good for certain corals...now heres where im rusty, im not sure what corals have negative affects from phosphate removers, it may be leathers or mushrooms im not sure.
but in just my opinion id say stay away from any phosphate remover and only use nitrate reducing media when nitrates are not mega high.
just curious why you have phosphates? you didnt use tap water did you?

Loverotties · 03-21-2006, 09:04 AM

I use Rowa Phos and it works for me!

kevinnq · 03-21-2006, 09:10 AM

I use Rowa Phos too. It works great. More expensive but work great! you can buy bigger size from marinedepot.com too.

skeety · 03-21-2006, 10:02 AM

This question comes from a place of curiosity, so please don't take offense.

I'm curious why you guys (phosban/Rowa phos/nitrate reducing users) use these products. Is it because you don't use RO/DI water?

I guess I'm asking because I would think higher nitrates or phosphates are a sign of a larger problem. And using these products only masks the problem..and doesn't actually attack the root causes.

I'm asking because I'm trying to understand if there's times/situations/scenarios where these products are used for benificial reasons other than cancelling out a latent problem.

Alice · 03-21-2006, 10:37 AM

Casey's got it; always better to eliminate the cause than treat the symptoms.

If it's not your source water causing the problem, perhaps it's a feeding issue? That can cause problems quickly in a small tank. What and how much are you feeding?

Petunia · 03-21-2006, 11:08 AM

I have been thinking of purchasing some Purigen... this thread will be interesting.

I have been having a high nitrate problem for over a month. This is due to over-feeding.

I have been doing water changes once or twice a week and it has helped (nine gallon tank = 1 to 2 gallon changes). I was hoping that the Purigen would help with the process. It's not actually a chemical and should be ok to use. Right?

pastina · 03-21-2006, 11:53 AM

the only chemical i use is chemi pure, its an ion carbon unit
some brands of carbon can actually leek out phosphates the same goes for cheaper brands of food.
so even if you use RO water (which i do) you can still get phosphates from adding something else to the water.
if you do regular water changes you wont have a problem with nitrates or phosphates.
just curious, but did you actually do a phosphate test?
do a google on phosphate removers and corals and you will see its a bad idea to use it in reef tanks.
i dont use anything like this and i never will, like mentioned above find the root of the problem and stick to water changes and your nitrates and phosphates will be zero naturally
its kinda like wearing deoderant, sure it takes away the smell, but does that mean you will you never take a shower again? ...an odd way to put it but then again im an odd ball lol

Petunia · 03-21-2006, 06:51 PM

I like that pastina ('the poo person')! Good way of putting it into perspective... giggle

pastina · 03-21-2006, 08:13 PM

lol @ the poo person
oh that blenny is a riot
i have so many pets that i should be considered the poo person lol

Reefyone · 03-22-2006, 03:46 AM

Yes, I'm using tap water - can't afford RO unit and don't like to carry gallons of water from the store, unless I have to.

Overfeeding is quite possible - can't figure the norm (drops or cu.mm per gal, just to have an idea). Prefer to feed sufficiently to keep healthy micro-life on the rock. But 5 gal tank, few corals and live rock only, self-clears after feeding in couple of hours. No filtration, no skimming, water movement only.

Water changes are regular, weekly. Nitrates are below 40, phosphates - below 0.25 mg/L (Jungle Lab Quick Dip test strips and Hagen PO4 test, better test kits - next month).

Not that I have a problem, just had read about sensitivity of corals and zero nitrates and phosphates requirement, then it looks like chemical binders could help, until mentioned them on the reef forum. And started looking for a second opinion.

About Purigen: it really needs 180 or 250 mk mesh bag, and their The Bag is huge for nano-tank scale.

Thanks for the replies!

pastina · 03-22-2006, 09:15 AM

its only a 5 gallon tank?
i only have a 10 gallon tank, i use RO water but i dont have an RO machine, i buy RO water at the supermarket. its labeled as Purified water and if you look in the fine print at the bottom it will say Reverse osmosis.
the gallons cost only 68 cents each since its cheaper than spring water.
only get bottled water that says purified RO, dont use spring or distilled because they arent RO and can contain anything from nitrates to metals to sodium etc
if you buy bottled ro water and do bi weekly water changes of 10% you can get all that tap water out in like 2 weeks or less, then you wont have to worry about phosphates
read your foods label, alot of cheap brands contain phosphates or "ash"

im setting up a 55 gallon reef tank next month. im so old fashioned, i still wont buy an RO unit im gonna buy 50 gallons of purified ro water lol
actually its not such a crazy idea, think about it, 50 gallons of bottled water only cost 34.00 compare that to an RO unit im saving a bundle.
sure it will take me an hour or so to dump in all 50 gallons and i may get some strange faces checking out at the grocery store...but its worth it, i guess im frickin frugal lol

Cella75 · 03-27-2006, 10:18 AM

What is the benefit of RO versus tap water that your use a conditioner for?

wharyat · 03-27-2006, 11:32 AM

I use purigen and carbon in my tank; I need to get some more phosphate/nitrate media. I only run this stuff since I have a BB 20 gallon, things can go bad very quickly in this situation since I don't have the buffering effects of a sand bed.

RO(/DI) water is as close to pure water as you can get. Almost all impurites are taken out of the water.

Tap with conditioner still contains all that good stuff that the water companies put in to keep the water "clean." Conditioner takes those chemicals and chemically converts to a less harmfull form (chlorines, chloramines); but all of the silicates, nitrates, phosphates, are left behind to help feed your algae.

pastina · 03-27-2006, 12:43 PM

RO vrs tap....i guess some city tap water is better than others but they all pretty much stink.
i tested my tap water for nitrates and it was 10 ppm....why would anyone want to add nitrates to their tank??
RO water tested for nitrates and it was 0
and tap water is loaded in phosphates which causes those nasty hair algae blooms
sure tap water is easier and lordy knows i wish i can use it but if its gonna give me a tank full of problems ill pass on its ease of use and go with the RO
i have no need for phosphate removers,nitrate removers or any of those things, i just use chemi pure for that unbelievable blue white water it creates