Where's the Local Support?

[rwing]

I have to say that I am absolutely amazed at the arrogance I see from this group. EWOF was kind enough to host your club meeting and all you guys can talk about is pooling together to bypass your local retailer. I guess you guys don't mind driving clear up to the cities for everything you need, because if you keep up with this attitude we won't have a marine outlet left in Rochester! I for one believe in supporting my local economy. Brad, Jason, and Tom have been very helpful and courteous to me whenever I have needed help or simply wanted to go in and check out what's new. I have watched you guys complain about the lack of variety of certain types of corals and other things. How is any retailer supposed to survive and bring in the things you want to see when you guys turn around and buy from some wholesaler? It's obvious to me that none of this club's members are small business owners. If you were, you would understand how difficult it is for a small business to succeed in today's market. Don't get me wrong, I love the internet and use it on a daily basis, but not at the expense of the retailers whos shops I enjoy. Have any of you ever thought about talking with EWOF about the kinds of things that you would like to see in their store, or how the club could work with the store to bring in products specifically for club members. The next time you guys get together to do one of your "pool orders" I want you to stop and think about the negative impact that has on our local shops. If we all did that our economy would be in the toilet worse than it already is. I understand that what comes around goes around, and that by keeping my business local I will benefit in the long run as well. You guys really need to stop and take a look at the big picture! And NO I won't be joining this kind of club.

[oyam123]

Look Who's Back
"And NO I won't be joining this kind of club".
Sounds Good to me! Ill take you off the mailing list.
People have asked EWOF to bring in items, and they did and people got them and were happy.
A pool orders for inverts is a nice way to get together and; NO, I dont want to pay $5 for a $0.90 snail.
But I do buy things at EWOF (that I could get for less) for the service and they stand behind what they sell.
If you want to change things, then let it be known who you are and get involved and actually try and do something. Not just hide behind so anonymous POST and run.
I could delete this, but I think we all need to talk openly and honestly about the hobby and how we as a Club can have a local impact on it.
David

[rwing]

I'm not trying to hide at all. I have seen the internet destroy too many businesses to count. Too often, all anyone thinks about is the short term dollar they might save by making a purchase online. Very few people ever take the time to think about how their actions impact our local economy. You say you don't want to pay $5 for a .90 cent snail, I agree I don't either. But their has to be a better solution than stabbing the local retailer in the back and then complaining to one another that we don't have a good fish store in town. I enjoy being able to walk into a fish store and see first hand what I am purchasing. I also enjoy having a cup of coffee with the guys that work there, shooting the breeze and picking their brains for helpful tips. These are things you just can't do online. In addition, if everyone keeps going online to make their purchases, we won't have any local fish stores to visit. Think of the negative impact that would have on our hobby....if people can't see an aquarium, they can't get interested in it as a hobby. The internet has had many, many negative impacts on hundreds of local businesses. I say we...your group...get together with the guys at EOWF and express your concerns. But keep in mind that they are there to make a profit and have many expenses that you are not aware of. Maybe Brad would be willing to work out a special pricing structure for you guys when you want to make bulk purchases. I don't have all the answers, but I do know that continued support for internet shopping will be the death of our retail stores!

[oyam123]

I don't hear and complaining about EWOF.
I know we have not done a Fish buy on-line as a club for over 2 years.
I spent some $$$ for nice stuff at EWOF just to say thanks for hosting a
meeting, and I know others did the same and more.
Just don't call people arrogant or names, we don't need that. But we do need to talk about stuff like this.
thanks
David

[MedicineMan]

Sooo, rwing, who ARE you? You say you're not hiding behind an anonymous post BUT you don't even ID where you're from. It's hard to put credence to an idea put forth by someone who blasts the club anonymously, no matter how wonderful an idea it is.

Here's a thought for the club. Put together an "order pool" to submit to EWOF. I've said it before in this forum and I'll say it again: support your local business; don't just ask for handouts!

PS for rwing: I'm a co-founder of the club. The first meeting ever was held at my house on 9/11/01.

[StellaMN]

Wow....what intense venom from someone who hides behind the annonymity of the internet. Who are you? Do we know even know who you are??

I bet I know who you are. You must be one of the people who went to EWOF before the meeting and bought up as much as possible BEFORE the scheduled meeting time and then never showed up for the meeting.

EWOF is doing a great job --- and I am happy to support them. BUT - it is incredibly frustrating to go in week after week the day after an order comes, and see that the tanks are cleaned out. Great for EWOF but bad for the busy hobbiest. I was fully prepared to spend a couple hundred dollars on Saturday evening, but ended up spending relatively little - because of those greedy, selfish mugs who bought out the store prior to the meeting and took advantage of the fact that RMAC was having its meeting at the store and that EWOF got extra orders and more ultra stuff in for that reason.

I know what your comeback is - consumers had the right to buy what was in the tanks for sale before the meeting. And you are completely right in your thinking. But---if you feel that way, then you need to understand that consumers also have the right to order online or travel to MSP if their needs/desires aren't being met locally.

BTW - I've had some fantastic conversations with Tom at EWOF, and he knows that invert orders are done by the club - and he is understanding of that - he knows that they can't meet the prices for those who want/need lots of snails, hermits, etc.

We live in a capitalistic society. People can spend their money wherever they choose. The reason RMAC was never able to form a partnership with FnP, was because the owner expected us to ONLY shop in his store. That is something that will never happen.

Like I said, I am ecstatic that we have EWOF in Rochester...and I am happy to spend my money there - when I can and when they have the livestock that I'm looking for to spend my money on.

Oh, and BTW - I am also happy to sign my name.

Have a nice day,

Jodi

[oyam123]

I think we need to keep EWOF out of this thread. I don’t think they opened a shop to cater to a reef club with less than 20 members. That said some small businesses get it. They look at internet prices and add on shipping then know what people can buy things for and price according to that. That’s why I don’t order fish on line, because some LFS get it and make the price so close it does not pay to order on-line. Dry goods also, a small businesses in Redwing knows the reality of the market and charges accordingly. That’s why people drive up to get things from him. RMAC will not make or break a local small businesses, but we can help to promote a hobby and promote LFS that takes pride in what they do and the animals they care for.
David

[rwing]

Ok, I'll shed some light on my identity. I am a small business owner in Rochester with absolutely no ties to EWOF. I am actually very new to the marine hobby, having purchased a 125 tank only 3 months ago. I am sorry if I came across a little strong in my first post. My intention was not to offend anyone, but rather to focus some attention on the impact that the internet has had on our local economy. I was angered when I read a post thanking EWOF for hosting your last event, and then in the same post suggesting a pool order. I don't think you guys understand how much these small businesses rely on your support for their survival. I too have been disappointed to go into EWOF only to find a smattering of fish and corals to choose from, however I have been in their shoes myself, and I understand how difficult it is for a start up business to come up with the capital required to make large stocking orders. I also know what it costs these guys to advertise in our community....the local newspaper and television stations are not the friend of the small business owner....most of us simply can't afford their rates. So where does that leave the little guy? Please don't get hung up on who I am, I have no agenda other than to see a local store that I enjoy visiting thrive and prosper. I truly believe that you guys can help far more than you realize....others will follow your lead. By preaching support for local business and talking with the owners I think a solution can be found which would benefit everyone. How cool would it be to see a store like EWOF expand in a few years and provide the Rochester area with a fish store on par with what we find in the cities? They can't do it without all of our support.

[MedicineMan]

Gosh, I think we're all on the same page here. rwing is correct in that starting and then maintaining a small business is a TOUGH job. It USED to be that the small business drove the US economy but it's getting less and less as the big box stores and the internet grow.

I've worked ONLY for small businesses since 1990. I KNOW what stress they're under. I also know that there's very few small businessmen out there that says, "Gee, I'm doing OK; no need to get more sales and more money!" (My last boss was in that category, sort of. He watched the sales and, of course, encouraged good service, provided good products and wanted to increase sales but his focus was ALWAYS on the employee. My current boss whines about money but, in the end, is looking out for his employees as well. Am I a lucky SOB or what???)

It's pretty well known that something like 95% of all new start up small businesses fail in 5 years and that you almost NEVER make a profit in the first year. Business is a difficult proposition and the only friends they have out there are their potential clients.

Enough of this. Perhaps getting a pool order together and asking the guys at EWOF what they can do with it, possibly even pre-paying, would be a way to get decent product from a local vendor at a reasonable price.

[BioCuber]

WOW!!! Skip a few days and miss a lot. I feel there is a tremendous amount of support for EWOF within this group. So much support that we have been freely promoting them to new visitors and driving people to their store via a meeting and word-of-mouth. We support EWOF more than any other store in town, and one of the alternatives is another small business. A pool buy has been suggested within this forum; however, I missed the part where it was combined with the thank you to EWOF. I witnessed quite a number of sales at EWOF in the hour after their store officially closed. These sales were made to members of this board and I believe we are all very willing to purchase from EWOF. Not once, at the meeting, did I hear anyone suggest a pool buy versus in-store purchasing.

Your original post is quite general and hard on the whole group for a theoretical "pool order". It’s too bad you come to such a rash conclusion just in reading these forums. Do you believe everything you read on the internet? If so, I hear Bill Gates is sending free money to those who forward an email on his behalf. I consider myself a very active member and I haven't taken part in a pool order. I only know of one such order in the past year and it was so inconsequential many did not take notice or participate.

Regardless, I don’t mind driving "clear up to the Cities"since I am there at least once a week and the small business owners in the Cities need support too. Something Fishy in Richfield practically sponsored our first meeting by donating hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise which in turn gave the club a kick start with some funding. These funds allowed David to purchase a clam at EWOF for raffle and to provide food at the meeting. Mike at Something Fishy is from Rochester, he was deployed in Iraq and is a great guy. I don't have a problem supporting his business, he certainly supports our club. Fritz and Li from Reef Stock, now Saltwater Empire, were propagating corals in their basement for years and are now opening a store. Fritz has offered support for our club. Driving to the cities does not imply that we are shopping at SuperFishMart, we are still supporting small business. EWOF has a tremendous potential in town and they will grow in inventory and support. The lack of inventory alone is why many may choose to shop elsewhere. I have a 14 gallon tank, as of a few months ago EWOF was only selling large corals. I made a request and now smaller nuggets are showing up. I requested a star fish and have been waiting for a few months; I ran across a few in the Cities but will wait until one shows up at EWOF. Some items are just not readily available at EWOF, as the store grows this will change and more money will be spent there. If I wanted a Porsche I could find only one on a lot here in town, I could force myself into purchasing the one here or I could go to Carousel in the Cities and have 30 to choose from. If I talked to the local dealer and made a request for a 1996 silver C4S I may be waiting for months just to support my local business.

After reading your second post I hope we run into each other while shopping at the Farmer's Market, Silver Lake Foods, Good Food Store or Rochester Produce. Certainly you don’t shop at Hy-Vee, Cub, Target, Wal-Mart or Sam’s Club. Although these stores support and contribute to our local economy the money is going elsewhere and they have aided the closures of the Rainbows and EconoFoods, what local business is next?

Now I'll stop my rant. I just refreshed the page and it looks like things are cooling off and I should too.

Josh

[StellaMN]

Hey Josh...

Since you are ordering Porsches - will you buy me one too???

j/k

Jodi

[mjsandbe]

Wow, at first I wanted to defend myself and the club because it felt like we were being blindly attacked. Now I just wonder if rwing is shaking his fist at the sky, and we just happened to be his line of sight. After pondering it for awhile, I have come to the conclusion that an anonymous person who does not bother to participate, does not deserve hardly any type of response at all.