Sump design for narrow stand

[OodleyBoodely]

This is a quick sump design I did for Voyeur who is going to start working in acrylic and volunteered to do a sump for my 55 as a training project. Thankyou, John! My 55 stand is so narrow with really narrow doors that finding anything to fit that is also large enough to be a worthwhile sump has been difficult. My idea is to use multiple overflowing modules that can be independantly inserted through the stand doors and then aligned together to form a multiple chambered sump where each unit overflows into the next unit. Each piece would have to measure about 8x10". I would appreciate any concerns, comments, or critiques on this idea.

[wanareef]

So how will each piece attach to the other? By a BH? What happens when the pump is turned off? What about flow from one compartment to the other? Will there be enough not to starve the returm pump? Will it be able to keep up with the overflow? Just some ?? to throw at you.

Maybe insted of a slant in the last chamber, there might just be enough room to put in baffles, but in an 8x10 it'll be tight. So it'll overflow from one to another, have you figured out if there is enough for just in case? Just don't want any floods.

Someone had the same problem on another board and came up with a solution. His stand was small and had a center brace- he removed it with the stand braced, slipped in the sump and reattached the center brace.

[OodleyBoodely]

Originally Posted by wanareef

So how will each piece attach to the other? By a BH?
I don't think BHs would work, too cramped. My thought was build in an overflow spout that would extend above and across the edge of the next container. Each unit of the sump would be slightly taller than the next to allow for the overflow.
What happens when the pump is turned off? What about flow from one compartment to the other?
Flow from the first two units would be driven by overflow from the aquarium which would stop as soon as the pump stops. The first two units would remain filled to the overflow spout. The last unit (which would only fill to halfway while the pump runs) would fill from the backflow from the return plumbing. I don't know how big the final chamber would have to be, but I am only planning a single return line. The primary circulation in the tank would be via a completely seperate closed loop, not from the sump return.
Will there be enough not to starve the returm pump? Will it be able to keep up with the overflow? Just some ?? to throw at you.
The rate of the overflow would be determined by the return pump itself. Is there more to this that I am missing? Please educate me if I am missing a vital point here.

Maybe insted of a slant in the last chamber, there might just be enough room to put in baffles, but in an 8x10 it'll be tight. So it'll overflow from one to another, have you figured out if there is enough for just in case? Just don't want any floods.
Ha! I certainly don't need any more flooding! Why the baffles in the return unit? With only a moderate flow through the sump, I thought bubbles would be less likely to cause problems. The slant in the last unit is intended to reduce both noise and the mixing of air in the water that would occur in a waterfall drop from the middle tank. Adding baffles to the final unit would reduce the needed holding capacity in case of power/pump failure.
Someone had the same problem on another board and came up with a solution. His stand was small and had a center brace- he removed it with the stand braced, slipped in the sump and reattached the center brace.

He was a brave soul! Wanareef, thankyou for your comments! There is much I have to learn about sumps-so feel free!

[wanareef]

Mainly concerned with the level of the water when the pump is turned off, ie maintenance. There is still some water that comes out of the tank before it levels off at the overflow. On a 55gal tank with about an 1" of water over the overflow - is about 5gals or so. Assuming that it is 1". Since each compartment will have residual water up to the spout, will the 5 extra gallons be contained.

Should be ok.

[clownfishcrazy]

I have the same problem with my 20h gal. My sump is huge so that I have more water volume than just the water in the tank. Instead of making my sump into sections I am going to drain my tank down. Then I am going to pick up and move my tank so that I can drop the sump down through the stand. And then put the tank back on the stand, but this is probly out of the question for your 55 gal.

You should put baffles in the pump conpartment to stop all of the micro bubbles from entering the your tank.

[Voyeur]

Once we get dimensions we can figure out where to put baffles.

Wanareef,they arent going to be truly "hooked" together from what I'm understanding here.The two right hand compartments will have lips that hook over the compartment to the left.should be no problem with anything leaking that way.

We do need dimensions though!!!!

Should be getting the table saw in a couple weeks.Maybe the baby will be sleeping more by then!!


John

[wanareef]

John

Have you got a game plan on the acrylic? 1/4" will be fine for that small a size compartment. Weldon 4 will work just great, 3 dries a little faster than 4 and 16 for those little gaps -1/16" and no more.
Oh, Freud makes great blades- good quality good price and they use better grade carbide. Stay away from Craftsman - carbide toooo soft, wears a little faster - I have the old blades to prove it (14). Didn't know till it was too late.

[OodleyBoodely]

I'm going to do a little experimenting this weekend on finding what sizes will actually fit through the doors and into the stand. I was just thinking that I never considered standing the sump on end to fit through the door and then just lay over into the correct position. If that works then the seperate units could be nearly twice as long as I originally thought. Perhaps that would add enough volume to the last unit to contain all the water when the pump is off. The doors measure 10x20", plus inside the stand, the floor to ceiling height would be aprox 4" taller or 24". John, I'll get back to you with the dimensions. Thanks again, guys for the feedback and insight.

[Voyeur]

Originally Posted by wanareef

John

Have you got a game plan on the acrylic? 1/4" will be fine for that small a size compartment. Weldon 4 will work just great, 3 dries a little faster than 4 and 16 for those little gaps -1/16" and no more.
Oh, Freud makes great blades- good quality good price and they use better grade carbide. Stay away from Craftsman - carbide toooo soft, wears a little faster - I have the old blades to prove it (14). Didn't know till it was too late.

No game plan as of yet,I still dont have my table saw.I'll most likely use the 4 as it dries a bit slower.At the moment Im building a jig to use on all my "boxes".It will hold the pieces at 90 degree angles for me so I dont have to worry about fit.Only hard part is making sure my jig surfaces are completely level,but its not too bad as Im not in a big hurry.Once I have it set up putting together cube and rectangular tanks up to about 8 to 10 feet will be really easy.The clamps arent going to actually clamp,just use gravity and weight to hold the pieces.Although it will only work for one about 3 feet wide.Possibly a modular approach would work better,that way I can modify it for any size tank....hmmm.....

Back to the drawing board......



John

[OodleyBoodely]

that way I can modify it for any size tank....hmmm.....

Back to the drawing board......

Don't ya love the planning stage for new projects! I find it is the most exciting time as there are so many possibilities to consider! I'm afraid I got sidetracked today and did not get around to getting those measures, John, and tomorrow we are throwing a Dad's Day bash for my father. We're all going to sit around eating super nachos, cake and icecream, swill beer and wine and watch Dad's new videos (Probably Roy Rogers or John Wayne ) I'll get those measures for you as soon as I can!

[Voyeur]

Originally Posted by OodleyBoodely

Don't ya love the planning stage for new projects! I find it is the most exciting time as there are so many possibilities to consider! I'm afraid I got sidetracked today and did not get around to getting those measures, John, and tomorrow we are throwing a Dad's Day bash for my father. We're all going to sit around eating super nachos, cake and icecream, swill beer and wine and watch Dad's new videos (Probably Roy Rogers or John Wayne ) I'll get those measures for you as soon as I can!

Dont worry too much about it Ood,I still dont have a table saw yet and I'm having company for Fathers day too.

Anytime in the next couple weeks will be fine.

John

[OodleyBoodely]

Dont worry too much about it Ood,......Anytime in the next couple weeks will be fine.

I'm looking into bulkheads and return pumps for this baby. I've got to go cheap for now and am thinking of going with a Quiet One 3000 through petwarehouse. I have not heard anything about these pumps but for now I am just looking for something I can afford to get it started. I don't want a high flow through the sump anyhow, cause I want the water to have time to cool slightly before it is returned to the tank. Next project will be to add the CLS and for that I would like to go with a more powerful pump and maybe add eductors to the outlets, but that will be a ways down the line.

Now I'd like to get some feedback on drilling my acrylic tank. My plan is to drill it in place and still running - I'll just drop the the water level to halfway and use a mototool to drill. Is this a feasible plan? Or am I planning a major disaster?
Anyone done this?

[Voyeur]

Originally Posted by OodleyBoodely

I'm looking into bulkheads and return pumps for this baby. I've got to go cheap for now and am thinking of going with a Quiet One 3000 through petwarehouse. I have not heard anything about these pumps but for now I am just looking for something I can afford to get it started. I don't want a high flow through the sump anyhow, cause I want the water to have time to cool slightly before it is returned to the tank. Next project will be to add the CLS and for that I would like to go with a more powerful pump and maybe add eductors to the outlets, but that will be a ways down the line.

Now I'd like to get some feedback on drilling my acrylic tank. My plan is to drill it in place and still running - I'll just drop the the water level to halfway and use a mototool to drill. Is this a feasible plan? Or am I planning a major disaster?
Anyone done this?

I read a thread somewhere that Wanareef sent me to where a guy drilled holes in his glass tank with it still running.Im positive that if you have an acrylic tank it wont be a problem,just use a hole-saw the right size and dont use a drill motor that goes too fast or the acrylic will melt.

I think your best bet would be a cordless type drill if you have one,they dont usually spin real fast,unlike a dremel or something like that.

[jesspaul]

I would attach a cup or something to the inside of the tank to catch the bits of plastic and such. If your feeling lucky you could try the below trick.

If you put a cup over the inside of the hole area and then drill a hole to let the water inside the cup out you should be able to complete the hole without losing water. The water pressure will hold the cup like a suction cup. Could be tricky since you need to put the bulkhead fitting inside the cup. Droping the water level is safer.

FWIW if you should get more cooling in the sump with a higher flow rate. THe heat removed is related on the difference in temp so a faster flow rate would give better overall cooling.

[OodleyBoodely]

Good ideas, guys! Thanks for the input. I was originally thinking of going with one large (2") bulkhead so's to avoid any problems with slow drainage. Do you see any problems with this?