Plumbing the fuge

[sscheitel]

I am setting up the sump design below. I have a few quick questions.
The display is a 125 gal AGA with dual vertical overflows.
I will have one overflow drain directly into the skimmer side of the sump. I will have the other overflow drain into the fuge side...tee'ed off right above the fuge as the pic below illustrates and a ball valved so only a portion of the water drained goes to the fuge. Is that correct? How much water should go to the fuge? How do I put the drain line in the fuge? Just put it 1"-2" in the fuge water line? Do I put a 90 degree elbow on there so that the water flows across the surface? Holes or slits?

Also the two drains that come into the skimmer side...do I just drop the PVC into the water 5"-6" under the water line? Do I do a small corner section (with teeth along the bottom) and drop long PVC tubes in there for them to drain? I could put small slits in the pvc pipes going into the water so the air can get out...like the MegaFlow Sumps?

Any advice is much appriciated.

[Geoff]

why do you want a fuge. i would not use one, and do not use one. tried it many years ago and was glad when i got rid of it.

the only reason why you would do something funky to where the drains go into the sump is if you want to keep the noise down. the added bubbles from the drain chopped up in the skimmer pump can only help the skimmer.

air in the fuge area is not so good. so the best thing to so is make a reverse durso standpipe. have a large PVC pipe going into the fuge as low into the water as possible. at the top of the tube reduce it to the drain pipe size. put a tee here with one of the legs of the tee going up and other leg going down into the large pipe. the tee'd end connects into the ball valved bit you were talking about. that way air is able to escape up through the tee.

the same can be done for the skimmer side drains.

G~

[sscheitel]

Thanks Geoff. Does the pic below look correct? You said "have a large PVC pipe going into the fuge as low into the water as possible." What does this mean? As far down as possible with out touching the sand bed/mud bed?

[Hendersonracing]

I have mine coming in the top of the left tank(top) and running through an overflow on the right side....probably about 500 gph or so...and for flow in the refugium Im running a seio 1100 just to keep the water from getting stagnant!

[Geoff]

that will work. i would turn the elbow on the reverse durso so it points upwards. the one in the other thread is a better design.

G~

[N0cash]

Originally Posted by Geoff

why do you want a fuge. i would not use one, and do not use one. tried it many years ago and was glad when i got rid of it.

the only reason why you would do something funky to where the drains go into the sump is if you want to keep the noise down. the added bubbles from the drain chopped up in the skimmer pump can only help the skimmer.

air in the fuge area is not so good. so the best thing to so is make a reverse durso standpipe. have a large PVC pipe going into the fuge as low into the water as possible. at the top of the tube reduce it to the drain pipe size. put a tee here with one of the legs of the tee going up and other leg going down into the large pipe. the tee'd end connects into the ball valved bit you were talking about. that way air is able to escape up through the tee.

the same can be done for the skimmer side drains.

G~

[N0cash]

Could you elaborate on your choice against refugiums? I'm new and trying to plan a 75g softy tank.

[N0cash]

And my knowledge of posting sux, sry

[Bergovoy]

Yes, pelae elaborate on the reasons you do not prefer a fuge? I have not heard any negatives about fuges before.

Also, I would verify that your skimmer fits into the area you ahve allowed for the skimmer, (dont forget to include the piping when tehthe skimmer is installed, (gate valve mod or anything else).

Also, your Return section looks HUGE. Verify how much water is in that area, and your evaporation rate tosee how ofter you will need to top off evaporated water. (I would allow no more then 2-3 days), or less if you ahve an ATO.

As for the flow rate through the fuge, there is a lot of discussion on that, for two differeing ideals.

I prescribe to a LOW FLOW, so I am aiming at 1x to 2x (1 to 2 times the total quantity per hour.

Also, verify that you have sufficient room in the sump for water to drain out of your tank in the event of power loss to the return pump.

Bill

[sscheitel]

This is by no means to scale...The skimmer will fit once it is propped up on a stand. The baffles will be moved to accomodate the skimmer, top off evap, power outage water fall....ect.

The design has been modified slightly.

[Geoff]

why have two pumps? safety margin?

you will get a lot fo air bubbles in the fuge with a spraybar.

what i have against refugiums.

they do not work. they are inherently at odds with themselves. how do you plumb a fuge. if you put it after the skimmer it will not get the food it needs, if you put it before the skimmer it will remove the food that is suppose to get to the tank.

then there is the whole misconception about algae as a nutrient export. algae needs to be culled in order for it actually remove nutrients. algae also leaks nearly as much phosphates as it uptakes. there is also the problem of growth inhibitors being released by the algae.

sand is also not much better. it is a great abosrber of phosphates, but it also needs to be removed in order to actually be used as an export mechanism. not a big deal, but when removing large bodies of sand while a tank is running is risky. lots of hydrogen sulfide can be released along with a lot of the phosphates that the sand bed had absorbed.

you also do not want to feed the algae back to the tank. this is just putting the bound phosphates that you want removed back into the system when the critter poos it will release these phosphates back into the system.

that is a good start.

G~

[Bergovoy]

I would put another baffle about 1-1/2" to the right of the fuge baffle and have it go from about 2 inches above the water line, to about 1-2 inches above the sand bed.
This will keep algae and other floating things from falling over the single baffle that you ahve shown.

Also, I would scratch the two pumps, no need, extra power usage, and extra heat generated. (you may also consider using an external pump also for minimizing heat exchange)

and you could tie the drain line coming from the fuge to the other side of the sump into the one pipe, but install a check valve in that line to prevent back flow through the fuge.

And I have the drain lines spill out onto the surface of the water, and into a filter sock to strain large particulate out of the water...

good luck

Bill

[Bergovoy]

Okay, found out about culling, (see, I can learn something everyday..)

And yes, if the algae is used for the one purpose of pulling bad stuff from the tank, then it would need to be culled, or just like phosphate filters or other filter type pads, they need to be changed out when filled or they will leak back into the tank, when they get past thier saturation point.

But like I said above, I am looking for a general purpose non specific overall type of benefit.

And as the algae grows, I would hope its capacity to contain or hold the junk, should increase

Anywas, of course all my opinions are just that, my opinions.

I have no formal training and only minimal experience.

So, take what I have to offer with a lot of grains of salt, I am working from the bill bergovoy booko of common sense, which is not actually common, just mine...