need SPRAYBAR no sump...will this work?

[LISound]

this will be my 1st attempt at building something for the tank so here goes...
I'm not Tim Allen either...pretty handy.
With that said...

I am removing all the CC in my tank...i have a mix of sand and CC.
can't get my nitrates down to 0...so i plan to have a starboard bottom to support the rock work and fill in the front of the tank with a SSB...i know i will still have to siphon it but i can't get to the spots behind the rock against the back glass.
and i know that's where all the bad stuff is...

so i want to use 2---1 inch spray bars behind the rock work.
1 on the bottom shooting forward across the startboard and lower rocks...a 2nd about 6 inches higher also shooting forward towards the front glass.

Considering i don't have a sump, i thought i would use 2 maxi jets to power the spraybars---one on either side of the tank in the corners.
the idea is more flow and circulation...i can't keep the ditrus suspended long enough for skimmer and filter.
i also plan to have 2 maxi 1200's near the surface in both front corners of the tank on either side blowing at the rock....towards the back wall.

is this a wise idea...or am i just treading water.

if you need a sketch..let me know.

thanks...

any other options welcome.

[motorslave]

Am I reading correctly that you want to use 1 inch pipe for the spray bars? If so the maxijets wont provide near enough flow to power them. It takes alot of water to power a spray bar. I have a spray bar in my 55 that is about 46in long and is run by an 850 gph external pump, it moves the water pretty good and is drilled not only to push under the rock but also up against the back glass. It is plumbed with the pump directly behind the tank and the PVC is an up and over design since the tank is not drilled.
It does an excellent job of keeping the junk in the friont where I can get it. Youll love having it and wont ever want to do onother tank without some kind of spraybar, they are awsome!

Robert

[LISound]

but no sump.
how about 1/2 inch?
it's rated about 600 gph with 2 1200 pumps-
are there any better ones that i can use that would not be external?

[Doug1]

No you see why the closed loop is gaining favor, there is a limit to what you can push with powerheads. I have used the Hagen 802 with the "reversing plate" removed to power skimmers in the past, its a 400gph unit that gains alot with the green plate ( ithink) removed, but in all honesty if you need in tank pumps to power a couple spray bars in a 55, i would suggest something along the lines of a Mag9 on each one, they are still small enough to hide behind the rock stack

[LISound]

what size pump can i get away with inside the tank...
i thought all the mag's were external

[Geoff]

Originally Posted by LISound

what size pump can i get away with inside the tank...
i thought all the mag's were external

Mag's can be used either way. the problem with doing what you are thinking is that the PH/pump will occasionally need to be serviced. so you will want it to be somewhat accessible.

G~

[tims]

two things you could do..instead of the power heads..
do an extrenal pump. doing an up and over to the pump and back to the spray bar(s).
the other is a modification to the "mini" CLS geooff has on the mantal monster. it is a mag. but it is exteranl and right above the water ..

[LISound]

ok...after more research, CLS or spraybar is the way to go.
BB also.
I have a design for the up and over.
what size mag or other pump for system...I want flow...not force or velocity.
any other designs welcome.
Someone tossed up the idea of a SQWD (squid)
but that is just for CLS-correct--not if I want a spraybar.

Which is better in your opinion with a BB-
I've read through the post of the week already.
Geoff?
Spraybar or not? Anyone else...

Thanks

I want to start building by this weekend.
Can i use the biosafe glue or what?

[motorslave]

Ive heard alot of mixed stuff on th SCWDs, mainly they rob alot of your flow. As far as flow vs. force, that can be affected by the design of your plumbing. The smaller the diameter of your pipe and outlets, the higher the velocity ( and lower the flow) As far as going BB, the main purpose behind the BB was to create a system super low in nutrients for corals that need super clean water such as SPS, at the same time the SPS require a ton of flow wich tends to create a never ending sand storm! You can be a partial BB and have sand in front of the rock but clean under nieth and still use a spray bar. Once you get it done youll love how easy it is to keep your tank clean!

Robert

[Geoff]

i would use something like a Mag 12. i would not use a SCWD, they restrict the flow. you will want a fair amount of velocity if the spraybar is behind the LR. this will help it push the detritus to the front where it will be easily siphoned. it is also important to take into account the inlet to the pump. there can be a lot of pressure here and some critters can be sucked in and destroyed. you will need to put a strainer on it, the bigger the better. when doing a spraybar make sure to cap off the end. start with small holes, like 1/8" then if it seems to great, drill more holes or make the holes bigger.

G~

[LISound]

ok...
thanks all.
I've decided on the mag 12.
can't decide - spraybar or 2 returns?
I will use starboard and make a cutout in the front for some Aragonite, which shouldn't blow around.

What do you think?
I will do a mock up of this design.
http://www.melevsreef.com/closedloop.html

looks pretty simple

[Geoff]

i think you will be more satisfied with a sparybar than with two returns. it really does take a lot of water to actually push a spraybar.

G~

[LISound]

ok..mag 12 with a spraybar.

How should i design the spraybar?

[LISound]

should i have 2...can someone post a pic or design, maybe point me in the right direction.
I want to try to get this done over the weekend.
thanks

[LISound]

would a mag 12 be enough for a spraybar and 1 return?
or should I go with an 18?