DIY Group Project-Invisible rock lifts - Page 2

darthteddy · 10-16-2006, 11:32 PM

Tips on Shaping Rods...?

Fly Guy · 10-17-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthteddy

Tips on Shaping Rods...?

Dont get your fingers in the way of the grinder.

I will get some pics of that tomorrow.

Geoff · 10-17-2006, 08:56 AM

have you noticed any detritus building up on the downflow side of the grid? just wondering if making the bars into little ramps would keep the water flow going smoothly over he bars.

what about making the grid using a solid sheet of acrylic with the holes in it?

have you tried making the posts different heights?

sorry, for all of the questions. i think this is a neat idea.

G~

Fly Guy · 10-17-2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff

have you noticed any detritus building up on the downflow side of the grid? just wondering if making the bars into little ramps would keep the water flow going smoothly over he bars.

what about making the grid using a solid sheet of acrylic with the holes in it?

have you tried making the posts different heights?

sorry, for all of the questions. i think this is a neat idea.

G~

Downflow side of grid???? No following Geoff...please elaborate. A little more than 1" of sand covers up the rack part of this lift entirely. The crossbars are a non issue in relation to flow. Notice for my BB tank, i bought a 3/4" piece of hdpe......so i could drill my 1/2" deep holes necessary to support the rods....but not go all the way through the hdpe........zero flow restriction on the bottom fo the tank besides the rods themselves which isnt noticable with decent flow under there.

If your curious how i drilled those holes in the hdpe flat without the tip of the forstner going through.......i started the holes with a normal drill bit.....then finished them with a forstner bit that i snapped the tip off of

The solid piece of acrylic could would work just fine. It would work much like MY BB tank.....just covered in sand. Thats just a pretty big hunk of 1/2" acrylic depending on the size of your tank. It would add quite a bit to the overall cost of the project as well, unless you could find a 1/2" + tank to hack apart. The majority of the cost currently is in those 3/4" rods. If you started using a huge piece of 1/2" acrylic...along with other parts to either support your big piece or drill holes into(it could work either way) it could add a ton to the cost materialwise. The way it is currently designed......stuff cant really get stuck underneath it as the majority of the lifts is supported by 1 1/2" pieces spread thorughout. Does that matter????? I dont know.......probably not........i like knowing that it doesnt.

I generally make the posts 1" shorter ont he front and sides than everywhere else. This helps make it that much harder to see as it casts a shadow at all times on them. It also allows for pretty sweet flow through your reef along with a spraybar designed to be used for this. As well, On every lift i have made, i includea few extra long rods, or have a few extra long rods handy. These are to be used once you go to stack your rock as some taller support helps for specific rock. You dont know where they go until you start to stack of course.

I have messed with quite a few different overall heights for the entire lift and i like 2" lift (above the sand or bottom) in front and sides...and 3-4" everywhere else. This helps cast a shadow on everything underneath so they are even harder to see, as well as allows for grreat flow through your reef if you plumb with it in mind

A spraybar designed with holes going both under your reef and at your rock is an ideal configuration to be used with one of these lifts.

I just woke up and have a jumping jack child on my lap..... so if i had crappy answers or missed your questions Geoff........ask again if i missed whatyou were saying

Geoff · 10-17-2006, 08:27 PM

nope, you hit all the questions. i forgot that the gridded invisible lift is for a substrated tank, so my question is irrelivent. using a solid bottom for the BB tank solves the problem that i was thinking could arise by using the gridded support structure.

G~

Fly Guy · 10-19-2006, 12:17 PM

I have been kind of lagging on the teeth grinding pics.

I will just add a simple explanation in lieu of pics for the moment.

1. Cut your rods to desired length

2. On a bech or table grinder, simply press the rod into the grinding wheel at a 45 degree angle......do this four times around the rod makng 4 very distinct teeth. AFter you do a few you will get the hang of it and will end up with teeth taht stick like glue to your rocks. you can look at the pics of the finished lifts to see what they look like when finished. I wil get some more detailed pics up within the next day or two

These rods simply slip into the holes on your finished frame. They are not glued, nor do they ever need to be.

Geoff · 10-20-2006, 07:50 PM

OK, lets back this up a bit.

why would we want to raise the LR? what are we accomplishing by doing this?

G~

Fly Guy · 10-21-2006, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff

OK, lets back this up a bit.

why would we want to raise the LR? what are we accomplishing by doing this?

G~

Lifting your rock off of the substrate the way i do it allows for complete and thorough flow through your rocks so they can perform their biological filtration purpose as efficiently as possible. More so depending on how much effort you take in designing the flow in your tank through the use of spraybars or other creative means of achieving "everywhere" flow. PVC lifts can do this as well, but there is not only much more flow restriction, these lifts are not hollow forming dead spots within. As well, sand absorbs phosphates over time from feeding the tank. Phosphates are able to be wicked up into the live rock if it is touching the sandbed. This can lead to hair algae and cyano problems on the live rock. Having the live rock suspended above the sandbed also allows the phosphates to be turgored out by bacteria. Which is the same thing you are doing when you "cook" your rock. As well, i believe you could get away with much less rock than the 1 -1.5 pounds per gallon standard to perform adequate biological filtration as ALL of your rock is actually being used with flow throughout. I dont actually practice that theory myself because i like the look of rock wall to wall, but i do believe it 100%.

Regardless of how you lift your rock, it is beneficial to your system for several important reasons.

tashier · 10-27-2006, 03:58 PM

Alright Fly, I think I'm going to be building some of these. I'll be following this thread.

tashier · 10-27-2006, 05:16 PM

So, already (you know me) I have questions. Really just maybe a modification of the design. To make the lift sit lower in the tank could you glue cross braces between instead of underneath and have the lift actually sit on the bottom of the tank rather than propped up with little blocks under each peg? Two things, no need for props under each peg, and two it sits lower in the tank and less chance of it showing up from under the sand. What do you think?

Also, why were you glueing smaller strips together instead of just starting with long strips in the first place?

Fly Guy · 10-27-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tashier

So, already (you know me) I have questions. Really just maybe a modification of the design. To make the lift sit lower in the tank could you glue cross braces between instead of underneath and have the lift actually sit on the bottom of the tank rather than propped up with little blocks under each peg? Two things, no need for props under each peg, and two it sits lower in the tank and less chance of it showing up from under the sand. What do you think?

Also, why were you glueing smaller strips together instead of just starting with long strips in the first place?

Man you always ask a LOT of questions!!!!

j/k

You dont want to make the lift be one layer on the floor of the tank because those cross braces and little pieces under the rods distribute the weight of your reef so it isnt all on the lifts and doesnt put stress in certain spots in your tank.

I answered your question concerning if 3/8 could be used in your other thread. I dont think it could as it isnt enough lateral support on the rods to keep them in place. 1/2" minimum does the trick.

A touch over 1" of sand competely covers up the frame. If you really want it low profile build it like i did the BB lift with the hdpe, and all you have to do is drill the holes as described below. In fact just go BB in the first place...haha

I glue the smaller strips together becasue i cant get my scrap very often in anything longer than 2 feet pieces. It really doesnt add but afew minutes of effort for the project

webdr · 11-06-2006, 08:46 PM

Heres mine....
I will add that cutting the acrylic rods with a saw is NOT nessicary. Use PVC cutters (the ratcheting type)
The second you apply pressure to the rod with the blade, it snaps in half so cleanly you wont believe it

This is still in test fit mode so no rods are glued in and they look a little crooked.

Fly Guy · 11-06-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webdr

Heres mine....
I will add that cutting the acrylic rods with a saw is NOT nessicary. Use PVC cutters (the ratcheting type)
The second you apply pressure to the rod with the blade, it snaps in half so cleanly you wont believe it

This is still in test fit mode so no rods are glued in and they look a ittle crooked.

Sweet!!!!

If you can get access to a table or bench grinder........making some teeth in the top fo those rods will make a HUGE difference in gripping your rock when you stack it..........the rock will want to slide off flat tops........it wont go anywhere with the teeth.

FWIW, you can buy a grinder at harbor freight tools for $25 that will get the job done......and then youll have a table grinder to add to your tool collection.........

I would double check that pvc ratchet you used.......i have done that before as well and it destroyed it from ever being effective on pvc again after ten cuts or so..........

You CAN however score the acrylic rod with a razor knife all the way arouond and snap it off.....or better yet(and safer), score it with a pipe cutter

tashier · 01-09-2007, 04:23 PM

I just wanted to give a shout out to Fly on these rock lifts. They worked very well in my tank and look great. They are a great idea and I'd highly recommend them.

tspatz · 03-13-2007, 12:25 AM

I just built these last weekend as well for my 70g RR. Awesome idea. The base of the rock is now about 1/2-1" off the DSB.
The hardest part was that I had just put all my sand (apx. 4") in the tank about 2 weeks prior, and so here I am, 1/2 the water, all the coral and live rock out of the tank, and me bent over the edge trying to scoop all the sand to one side. I could only get about 1/2 of it out of the way, so I had to put the support in the tank, and wriggle it back and forth to get it to sink. It never did go all the way down, but it's about 1/2" or so, from the bottom, and level. When I raked the sand back over the top, here are my nice shiny acrylic pegs poking out of the sand, rock solid, and now so is my live rock. Thanks flyguy!
The whole project cost me $20 at the plastics shop. BTW, I made all the flat pieces 1 1/4" wide and drilled 7/8" holes since the shop only had 7/8" rod in stock. (Worked fine).
The only issue I ran into was that after I drilled the holes with my drill press, they were a bit bigger than the rod, causing it to be a bit wiggly.
I remember someone had said that was ok, but I was worried about the support being unstable once in the tank, so I put a few coats of Weld-on#16 around the base of each rod, and let it dry in between each coat, thus making the base a little bigger until each rod was fairly snug, but would still come out with some effort. Then I just pulled the unneeded rods out after everything was in place.

Thanks again for one of the best DIY ideas so far!