Building everything new

[Osurac]

Hi Reef Tank posters (and trolls like me).

I am considering the option of building a whole new setup. Before I get too far into what I want to build, let me tell you a bit about me.

I used to have a nice new 75G setup with a 20 long under it for a sump. This was fresh water, but as I have been playing with water for many years I think it is time to move to salt. I joined the Army, and left my setup with my brother, who later joined the Army too, and sold my setup when they moved. So now All I have left is a pump, a 50 watt light, and a few other pieces.

I have been reading the forums here, and dreaming. I have finished my Army enlistment, and have a nice new house. But there is no aquarium here & my wife is not going to let me spend lots of money on one. I am very handy, can build practically anything. For my last setup I built the stand, which came out great, with the exception of being a bit too short to work with the sump.

I am thinking rather than buying a new tank, I will build one. I read a great article linked from another thread about building tanks. It seems a bit challenging, and lots of fun. I will post all my plans here so I can take advantage of all the amassed knowledge of all you guys.

In the beginning I will be focussed on the tank itself, but as the tank & stand are done, I will need to learn more about sumps, skimmers, and all the other fun stuff that goes under the hood.

One serious consideration I need to figure out before I declare a size. Um, how much weight can your average house support? I mean if I start going real big, at what point will I be in danger of the thing falling through the floor? I COULD install more support under the floor if needed, but I think if I go that big my wife will have a fit anyway.

I eagerly await all your input, Justin

[Fat Tony]

I would probably build everything but the tank personally. By the time you buy all the materials, you could have just about purchased a tank. Also, the silicone that you get at home depot is simply just not going to cut it. You can however purchase the silicone at www.glasscages.com for $6 a tube of the clear and $8 for the black (my preferance). I would leave the tank building to those experienced in the art if it were me in the end though

Congrats


BTW, the tank is the cheap part

[Elegance Coral]

IIWY, I'd draw up some plans for the largest tank you can handle. Without your wife doing this. Then get a quote from your local glass shop. Remember to include finished edges on the glass and the holes you want drilled in it. If you want to drill the holes yourself, price the hole saw. They ain't cheap. Once you have the quote, you can compare it to the price of a manufactured tank. I would highly recommend pricing several plastic speed squares and some angle and bar clamps.


Most houses can handle large tanks, because the weight is spread out over a large area. I would suggest building a strong stand though. I've spent alot of time restoring historic homes, and trust me, floor joists do move over time. Especially when they're under a load. If the stand is strong enough to keep its shape, the tank will be fine, even if the floor does moves a little. Also remember to position the tank perpendicular to the joists. Throwing an extra support under the joists that will be under the tank wouldn't hert anything either.

[Loverotties]

+1

[Osurac]

Tony you are right, I priced glass to make a 240 gallon tank, and it turned out it costs the same to buy a pre made tank. I looked at the tanks as glasscages.com & they were the same price as the best glass price i could find.

So, to save money I think I will buy used. I found a 250 gallon tank with oak stand for $500, don't know anything else about it yet. That is about $200 less than a new one, and I can pick it up, so no shipping fee.

Even if I need to drill holes it would be a bargain. I will try to talk the guy down a bit. Maybe he would sell it witout the stand, but then what would he do with the stand?

Elegance, thanks for your suggestions. You said to place it perpendicular to the joists, the problem is that the best places to put it (really my only 2 options) are paralell to the joists. I may need to look at supporting those joists then. Is 250 gallons, plus about 50 ish in the sump that big a deal? By my calculation 300 gallons weighs in at about 2500 LBS. Wow that seems like a lot. I'm going to poke around down there & see how those things are built.

[Fat Tony]

Yeah, it will weigh in about 3K by the time you add in the tank, rock, sand and the stand. You probably going to need to add a couple of joists under the tank and add in a couple of supports that brace the floor up so it doesn't sag.

[Osurac]

OK, so while I am working on aquiring the 25o gallon aquarium, its time to look at the other aspects of the tank.

Basicly my plan for this system is to have a mix in the tank. I want rock formations in the main tank, not sure yet wether I will use sand there, or in the sump. Fish of course, not sure what kind. I think since this is my first salt water system I will start with the stronger less dificult varieties and work my way up.

I need to figure out what kind of flow rates I should be trying to achieve. I will use some sort of overflow system, probbably a pair of wide overflow boxes. I will be sure each cas the capacity to handle the flow in case one should stop flowing for any reason.

Next is heat, as in how much will I need? I have an air conditiond house, my wife prefers it cool, so it's always chilly in here (about 66 degrees). And is a chiller needed? I hope not.

Filtration... I am thinking of building a protein skimmer myself. I should have some time to work on that, there should not be much bio load for quite some time. I can't afford to buy tons of live rock, so I will need to start small & add dead stuff & wait for nature to handle that.

Well I think that is a good bit to digest for now. Just what I am thinking of. Ideas?

[Fat Tony]

Originally Posted by Osurac

OK, so while I am working on aquiring the 25o gallon aquarium, its time to look at the other aspects of the tank.

Basicly my plan for this system is to have a mix in the tank. I want rock formations in the main tank, not sure yet wether I will use sand there, or in the sump. Fish of course, not sure what kind. I think since this is my first salt water system I will start with the stronger less dificult varieties and work my way up. Whatever you do, you should decide now on what you want to keep coral wise. Starting with softies and moving up to SPS is a pain in the rear. If you want stonies then start with them, it will save you aggravation in the end.

I need to figure out what kind of flow rates I should be trying to achieve. I will use some sort of overflow system, probbably a pair of wide overflow boxes. I will be sure each cas the capacity to handle the flow in case one should stop flowing for any reason. Do a search on google for Calfo overflow or Coast to Coast overflow. It is the best design for achieving the best surface skimming capabilities.

Next is heat, as in how much will I need? I have an air conditiond house, my wife prefers it cool, so it's always chilly in here (about 66 degrees). And is a chiller needed? I hope not. I personally do not use heaters. Depending on what equipment you choose to use you probably will not need any heaters. Also, for cooling a few well placed computer fans will often out perform a chiller. Cooling from evaporative losses can achieve as much as a 3-5* drop in temp.

Filtration... I am thinking of building a protein skimmer myself. I should have some time to work on that, there should not be much bio load for quite some time. I can't afford to buy tons of live rock, so I will need to start small & add dead stuff & wait for nature to handle that. Visit Marcorock.com and look at the Largo Rock. It's nice stuff, and it's dry so you get more for the money. To seed it go buy a few pounds of live rock from a LFS and place it in the tank. Then cycle the tank using a piece of raw shrimp from the local grocer to kick off the cycle. Leave it in there for a week or so and watch your parameters to see whn everything starts to spike. When the Ammonia has spiked and is dropping, remove the shrimp.

Well I think that is a good bit to digest for now. Just what I am thinking of. Ideas?

[Osurac]

Hi, just a quick update. I am doing my reading on fish selection & inverts. Not sure on corals yet

Can someone make some suggestions for corals?

As far as fish I am considering the following (to be added very slowly of course)
Anthias
Chromis
Clown
Damsel
Gobys
Jawfish
Tang

All these seem to be easy to moderate to care for, and Peaceful to Semi Agressive. The chart I went from suggest they are all compatable with live rock, invertebrates, & live corals.

I have a few favoriate invertebrates, but no list made up yet.

I will want to get an anemone for the clown of course.

As far as tank setup I am leaning toward drilling some holes. I will probbably drill a series of small holes along the back for overflow, or maybe a slot. Also I think I would like to create a closed loop system for circulation, so I will need 2 1.5 in bulkheads. I have found some great deals on diamond hole saws on ebay that would do the job with no problems.

The biggest development would be the Live Rock setup. I have found a product called Vida Rock that is basically a porcelan based product that created & shaped to resemble natural live rock. I love the idea of it not being harvested from the sea. I have contacted them & since in am a videograher, we may be able to work out an exchange. I will document the development, especially the rock & they would supply the rock.

In adition to the rock, I am planning to go with a deep sea bed. I think between the rock & the DSB, that should take care of most of the biological filtration.

Under the DSB I want to create a series of stands to hold up the live rock. This will keep it from compacting & creating dead spots. I have seen this done somewhere with acrylic rods glued to some sort of grid. I think that setup should work great.

Thanks Tony for all the ideas. I am working on implementing most of them now. Hoping I am doing well so far?

[wharyat]

Your doing great so far. Sounds like you've done a lot of research.

For corals, it really depends what type of biotope your trying to replicate. Reef-top, 0-3 meters from the surface of the ocean, will require much different lighting, flow patterns, and husbandry approach than a lagoonal setup.

Anemones are best for stable seasoned tanks. A tank running a year or more is generally recommended as the minimum for an anemone.

ebay holesaws rule. Cheap and effective, yet get less cuts out of them than a $100 saw; but I have some ebay ones that I've cut 25 holes with and they're still good enough to do more.

For an overflow, you want to be careful how much glass you remove from the top of the tank, If you cut a slot the length of the tank, you loose the support of the top frame and could end up compromising the back panel.


Keep up the research, that's the key to a successful tank.

[Fat Tony]

Yep... lots of research is key. And you are doing great. I would however make a couple suggestions on a few of your fish... stay away from Damsels.. some of them are semi aggressive... but most are an exception to that being highly territorial and aggressive. A Jawfish is a tricky fish to keep depending on the variety. They are all known jumpers (as are the gobies) though and most require a really deep sandbed with lots and lots and lots and lots... get the picture... of rubble. Also rock stands are a MUST with them. Chromis are hit and miss. get too many and they will eventually kill each other off till their numbers get in line, they are also part of the damsel family (as are clowns). For your clowns, be sure to pick something that is the friendly type (perc' occelaris tend to be the best) as if you get the wrong ones (gold striped maroons are the devil in fish form) you will regret getting them.

Just a few words of wisdom, from a guy that has learned the hard way on fish

I would suggest a couple of wrasses to the tank as well. They are great for parasite predation and all around just cool fish

[Osurac]

Thanks tony for the advice on fish. I will use that info, I definately don't want any aggressive behavior in there at least to start. Hopefully in 250 gallons there should be room for a few fish to stake out some territory, but I don't want the thing to be a huge turf war.

Wheryat had sugested waiting a year before introducing an anemone, so i will wait till then for the clownfish too & go with the non devil in fish form type.

I have started to learn to use Google Sketchup, it's a very cool program, so maybe in a few days I will have some models of my thoughts for overflows, sump etc.

[Fat Tony]

You can add the clowns anytime... if they do end up hosting it may or may not be an anemone... clown will host just about anything... Nems, heaters, powerheads, a mound of cyano.. my clam... seriously

[Osurac]

Here's the idea I have for an overflow system

The tube inside the tank will be lined with holes on both sides, about 1/4" each, that should handle the flow, while making sure no fish get sucked in. It goes into the overflow box on the back, then down the pipes into the sump. One pipe will go directly to the skimmer. For the skimmer i will make sure the overflow has room for a pump to be mounted in the overflow, and the other drain pipe will be raised off the bottom to keep the level in there deep enough to keep the pump submersed.

Things might look a bit small, but this is a 250 gallon tank, so keep the size in mind. The overflow is 6 inches deep in this drawing. I might need to make it a bit wider & deeper, but the idea is the main thing.

[Fat Tony]

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f7...er-101772.html

see the above thread for a better solution to the intank "surface skimmer" it would be better than a bunch of 1/4" holes drilled in the pipe and would skim the surface more evenly.

Also. I would nix the baffle in the overflow, it's totally unnecessary. You are also going to have to build some durso's or hopher gurgle busters to quiet the drain, it would also negate the weir in the overflow

In lieu, of th info above, I recommend that you look at beananimals failsafe overflow system as an alternative and since you are building everything pretty much custom, you can't get a better designed overflow.

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/s...ow-system.aspx

you will have to adapt that design to your external overflow but it shouldn't be an issue. I would recommend that you upsize the bulkheads for the intank surface skimmer to 1.5"