Building everything new

[Osurac]

I read the page for BeanAnimal's system. Wow. That's a great setup, exactly what I was hoping to achieve. Silent & failsafe.

Of course even though it's perfect I want to change a few things.

1. I want to use the pressure from the main siphon into the sump & route it directly into my protein skimmer. Is there a chance in can get enough flow through a venturi valve to run the skimmer without a pump, or if not how can I create an inline pump setup to make use of the pressure through the main line?

2. I mignt not change anything else. Ok maybe a small redesign to create the overflow on the inside of the tank but with an external box for the plumbing to connect to. Where the water passes through the glass I want to create a "filter" of sorts to prevent a fish getting through. Just something to be sure if a fish should jump in, it doesn't get a ride down into the sump, or through the protein skimmer first. I know this system with it's backup would handle a blocked pipe, but I want to save the fish BEFORE that happens.

I also have bad news, this system might get downsized a bunch. I did convince my wife to the idea of having an aquarium, but she seems to think a 6 foot long aquarium is too big for our house. I have found a 125 gallon used tank i might be able to work with. I am still trying to get the 250, but it's looking doubtful unless I find a way to build the 250 into a wall somewhere. Hm, that idea has merit, no need for a room for the fish, just a fish closet instead. Then we can still have 2 spare bedrooms she won't give up for hypothetical children, and my huge fish tank. I shall have to look at all the walls in my house with a saw in mind Hm, there is an empty space where the original floorplan had a fireplace, we left it empty. between the kitchen & main room.

[Fat Tony]

You can feed the skimmer off of the drain, but you would likely need to use a recirculating pump to inject air into the skimmer. I don't think a gravity fed venturi would work all that well.

[Osurac]

I'm very excited, I have a nice used 150 Gallon tank at home now. It's empty & dirty but I can visualise how it will look.

Tony you said I might have to inject air? I thought the point of a venturi is it pulls air in. I just need to get the right GPH through it was my assumption. What I am hoping I can do is use a pump I have that normally does about 300 GPH. The venturi is supposed to require 500 to 700 GPH. If the pump is 3 feet above the venturi, I am thinking I should get extra flow due to the gravity assist. Maybe another 200 GPH is too much to ask? I think its time for me to study up on fluid dynamics to se how much pump I need to get in my target range of 500-700 with the stated drop. Also I have the stand it will go on, so I can now measure the actual drop.

Is there a way to measure actual flow rates? I would not be against buying or building a measuring device.

I will post some pics soon of what I am working with. I will document this all & maybe create a new thread for the actual build if people are interested in seeing how it develops.

[Fat Tony]

Originally Posted by Osurac

I'm very excited, I have a nice used 150 Gallon tank at home now. It's empty & dirty but I can visualise how it will look.

Tony you said I might have to inject air? I thought the point of a venturi is it pulls air in. Absolutely correct, technical term slippage I just need to get the right GPH through it was my assumption. What I am hoping I can do is use a pump I have that normally does about 300 GPH. The venturi is supposed to require 500 to 700 GPH. If the pump is 3 feet above the venturi, I am thinking I should get extra flow due to the gravity assist. Maybe another 200 GPH is too much to ask? I think its time for me to study up on fluid dynamics to se how much pump I need to get in my target range of 500-700 with the stated drop. Also I have the stand it will go on, so I can now measure the actual drop. You have to remember that you need velocity as well. 400 gph flowing through 1" doesn't have the same velocity as if 400gph was flowing through 1/2" If you restrict the drain down to gain velocity, you are going to set yourself up for a potential flood (well maybe not with Beans design) But you will loose flow. You are going to have to use a recirculating pump to act a your venturi (can I recommend a Sicce pump)

Is there a way to measure actual flow rates? I would not be against buying or building a measuring device. Yes, you can measure flow rates by using a 5 gallon bucket and your pump and a stopwatch

I will post some pics soon of what I am working with. I will document this all & maybe create a new thread for the actual build if people are interested in seeing how it develops.

[Osurac]

Ok, it's time to choose pumps. I was reading specs, comparing flow rates at different head levels etc, when I realised I need to be sure I am delivering enough flow in my tank when this is done. I cannot afford to buy something that I have to replace because it is inadequite to do the job.

So the way I am envisioning the system now goes like this

Overflow goes into my um... overflow behind the tank. In there I will use Bean animals drain design with 2 changes. Drain one will be pumped straight from the overflow system to the skimmer. This is where pump 1 will be, which I need to choose. Tube 2 works just like bean planned. Tube 3 is almost the same, but I will use a courrougated tube in this place. This gives me an added safety. If pump 1 fails, tube 2 floods, and tube 3 begins flowing. Since in this stage I have no areation happening in the skimmer, I now have areation being provided by the turbulent flow in the currougated #3 tube.

What I want to do is have my return pump be the only other pump in the system. So the question is how much curculation do I really need? I plan to use Eductors, as discussed in the sticky thread on eductors. My tank is on a stand 4 feet above where the sump will be. I am thinking if I look at flow rates for 8 feet of head, that should be about how much actual flow I will have after the Eductors. I shall dub this as "Pump 2."


Pump 1 I am trying to get about 600 GPH, but with 4 feet of tail. something rated for 400 GPH at 0 feet would probbably do that easily. I did tests on an old pump that was rated for 160 GPH, and got 300 GPH with the 4 feet of tail. I know I have never heard the term tail before, but it makes sense right? I keep hearing I need a recirculating pump for the skimmer. What is that? Because I have never seen recirculating listed as a spec on a pump.

Pump 2 (I believe) will need to pump about 1,200 GPH at 8 FT. I hear Eheim pumps are great, but I am not finding pumps rated for that type of flow. It seems the Danner mag drive 24 claims 1400 GPH at 8 feet. Can I believe I will get the rated cicrulation, or do I need to oversize here?

Last but not least, does this seem a reasonable ammount of flow? 600 GPH through the skimmer, 1400 GPH in the return pump coming into the tank through Eductors. No other circulation system in this tank if I can avoid it. I hope this all makes sense.

[Fat Tony]

You have to be careful in running too much flow through the sump as this will cause micro bubbles to pass through the bubble traps and make it back to your diplay. Typically, I shoot for no more than 1000 gph for the return pump. Also, feeding your skimmer from the overflow with a pump is a disaster waiting to happen. you will pumping more into the sump than the return can handle and you either will cause a flood or have inconsistent water levels in the overflow, not to mention that if for some reason your return pump fails, you will starve the feed pump shortly of water and will likely burn up the pump. Put the feed pump for the skimmer in the sump, it will be safer in the end.

A recirculating pump is nothing more than a needlewheel pump that has it's intake and outlet plumbed into the skimmer bod, hence recirculation the water in the skimmer and pulling air into the skimmer at the same time.

Look up "recirculating skimmer" it will show you an example of what a recirculating skimmer is.

Secondly, if you are going to recirculate the skimmer and feed the skimmer directly from the overflow, you will not need a pump to feed from the overflow down into the skimmer, just run the drain directly into the skimmer and let the recirc pump do the job of adding air to the skimmer

Sorry, that's all I can do tonight, it's getting late here (EST 2250) and I have to be up at EST 0400

[Osurac]

Hi again, and thanks Tony for all the help.

Things are proceeding. I have purchased the parts for a great DIY skimmer design I found, and will build that this weekend. I will post some pics if anyone is interested. The pump in this skimmer will be a sciece

I also cut some acrylic pieces for the coast to coast overflow last night, they fit so close to the edges I will have to notch the corners where the silicone gets in the way. I hope to glue those in place soon.

As far as pumps, It's looking like just the Sceice pump for the skimmer, and this one http://www.thereeftank.com/compare-w...x-x-pump/spec/ for the return pump. I wanted a good pressure rated pump so I can run eductors without the flow dropping too much. I want to keep the flow around 1000 GPH. I realise that is the max recomended flow to keep microbubbles out of the return pump. If needed I may route some of the flow around the sump.

I will be ordering hole saws to drill the tank soon, so I have to decide on hole size. Assuming I am actually getting 1000 GPH of flow, and I use Bean Animal's design, how big should my bulkheads be? I am leaning toward 1.5 inch, but I want to be sure that will be enough before I make holes.

Also for the return... I really have no idea where to put the holes for that. I know somewhere below the water line but... I am thinking about 4 eductors pointed in different directions will do the job of mixing things up pretty well. I like the idea of a spraybar along the bottom, but I don't want to go bare bottom, so if I go with crushed coral, will a spraybar blow it all over? I am thinking 4-5 small bulkheads, about .5 inches each should work, with a ball joint so I can point the output where I want it.

OK, enough for now. I will post some pics in a few days of the fun with the Protein Skimmer.

[Fat Tony]

Good choice on the pump for eductor use Also, 1.5" is a good choice for the holes as well, although you would be more than adequate with 1" bulkheads for that amount of flow