What is going on here?

[gregt]

I'm just curious, doesn't the 'sponsors forum' directly contridict the mission statement? Please don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate all the time and energy the admins _volunteer_ towards keeping this wonderful resource available.

Good point. The sponsors forums are the exception to the rule. The concept there is to provide a place where you can get information about products if you want it. The key is that you have to go look for it rather than being forced to see it.

[Spanky]

Sorry Toad I'm having a terrible time with the typed word right now so I'll bow out. But I'm not being defensive, just explaining.

You guys talk amongst yourselves.

[gregt]

This was the first time that I had chimed in on this issue. If you look at my previous post with objectivity rather than your defensive nature, you would find that I am merely offering up a reason for the unhappiness by some. I kept the issue on the downlow, and you perpetuated it with a defensive posture...because things were explained to me on the side doesn't mean others have a full understanding. "Begged for forgiveness", again an example of your extremely defensive posture, and a hyperbole of the situation. You completely missed the point of my post.

Agreed. We have been defensive because a simple mistake was turned into "The board is going to pot and everything has changed" when, in fact, nothing has really changed except the amount of responsibility on my shoulders as opposed to Brooke's. We may be administrators, but we are still people with emotions. We're doing our best to keep everyone happy. It's not easy and we can always do better, and we will always continue to try.

[MontanaRocknReefer]

If threads were deleted and one thread was semi-closed(what the hell does that mean---it's eithe closed or it isn't). Why is that the threads that were deleted were dealing with sponsors or products and yet it was a technical issue. Why weren't other threads deleted in the process! Nice try but it don't hold water with me so as not to drag this out I will not post again and you can blow smoke all you want!

[gregt]

Ask yourself one question. Why in the world would we intentionally close a thread simply because someone posted a link to our own sponsors? That just makes no sense whatsoever.

I would love it if that link was posted to every single thread that asks someone who to buy from. That would be terrific.

[thefatman]

my turn to be defensive.

yes i am extremely upset that the thread was deleted. I'm also none to happy with the answer.

first a thread was closed. now, being a webmaster, i can FULLY understand how a thread might accidentally be closed, especially when you are new to the software.

but i find it an extremely strange coincidence that on the very ngiht the pot is stirred, as it was so elequently put by spanky, another thread is posted by another member, NOT BY A SPONSOR, and my first sentance was "i hope this doesnt get deleted for being a commercial post". toadfish and i had an important conversation in that thread. that i belive was of a benefit to any and all reefers. then i receive a pm from an admin asking "whats your problem" then log in to find that the thread had been deleted..

how can i NOT belive it was intentional?

as for the board changing and what not, i dont think the mision statement has changed. but i do disagree with long time members being told they cant have fun here anymore. nor do i think it's fair to tell members they cant support sponsors publicly.

why does a board need sponsors? so they can maintain the baord and gain members. Why do sponsors spend money on advertising, no matter the cost? so they gain customers. why do sponsors give good customer service to customers? so they will have happy customers that will recommend them to other people. but if we are no longer allowed to recommend sponsors to someone, then what is the point of sponsorship (for the sponsor?)

these are common sense questions, which have gone unanswered either publicly or privately and i find it offensive to myself as a loyal member, as well as to paying sponsors whom i have had the pleasure of dealing with and whom i feel extremely comfortable recommending.

i think the reply to read the rules is sad at best.

i'm a member. i help make this baord what it is. regardless of how long i have been here, or how much help i have given. i am a member. i help contribute traffic to this site. i help contribute help to thsoe newer than me. i help point people in the right direction for where they could make safe purchases. i help validate the sponsors money that keeps this board alive.

my concern isn't for myslef, its for each and every member and sponsor here. i'm not defensive for myself (ya know, sticks and stones?) i'm defensive for the other members and future members that may be cheated out of valid information, because a rule said so.

i'm a business man, always have been, regardless of the several industries i've been involved in over the years. and i can not for a minute think of even one occasion where advertisers were not allowed to actually advertise. or where satisfied customers were not allowed to recommend a place where they had a good experience.

i agree with greg, i think the ruels regarding commercial posts and signatures SHOULD be modified or reviewed. and i'l be happy to post my thought on that.

first, i think if yo uare not a PAYING sponsor, then you should not have the right to have a commercial signature or avatar. that right should be reserved strictly for paying sponsors. (yes i have ugly sump in my sig. because 1. i was denied sponsorship. and 2. i was told to just put it in my sig. but i dont agree with that practice, but hey, i offered my money)

i belive sponsors SHOULD be allowed to post in a thread asking where to get something or anything else along those lines.

however, i also fully belive there should be limits. I would not ever approve of a sponsor undercutting another sponsor or bad mouthing another sponsor. nor do i think sponsors should be allowed to post specials or sales etc.. except in their own forum (which i think is a great idea)

if there are no limits, then as greg stated, the board would become one big commercial, and none of us wants that, not even the sponsors (i'm assuming this anyway)

i found trt, and stayed because i liked the flame and vulgar free atmosphere, and the rules. i've never searched for a better place because i dont belive one exists. but i can't remain at aplace where members are denied access to potentially valuable information, or where people are prohibited from practicing free speach or recommending a place where they have had a good experience.

i'm going to stop now, because at this point i am probably jsut rambling. but hopefully somewhere in here, some of this has made sense to the powers that be.

[gregt]

Thank you for your feedback Jay. It will be taken into consideration.

[thefatman]

Originally posted by gregt
Ask yourself one question. Why in the world would we intentionally close a thread simply because someone posted a link to our own sponsors? That just makes no sense whatsoever.

I would love it if that link was posted to every single thread that asks someone who to buy from. That would be terrific.

this is NOT the impression that is given on the background. particularly when threads are deleted and or closed, or when admins ask "whats your problem"

however, if thats how you feel, then so be it. because that's exactly what i hope for, and DO.

ANYTIME someone asks where can i get this or that, i ALWAYS recommend a sponsor.. even BEFORE making my first online purchase myself!

in my opinion if this isnt done, then what's the spponsor sponsoring for?

in addition, i'd like to add another idea regarding commercial posts, if and when the rules are revised...

dave mentioned telling people where to find x product and x store.

i think that should be allowed only if its a product that cant be found through a sponsor. i belive a sponsor should link should allways be posted when someone is in need of something.

prime example.. a lot of people ask about lights. many times they are reffered to hellolights. that shouldnt be allowed, as hellolights is not a sponsor. they, instead should be referred to underwatercreations, or premium aquatics, or aquaticco, or any other sponsor that deals in lights.

in contrast if someone asks, where can i buy a gallon of 2 part epoxy to seal my new plywood tank. obviously none of our sponsors carry such an item, then they should be refferred elsewhere that does carry that item..

jsut a suggestion.

[gregt]

in my opinion if this isnt done, then what's the spponsor sponsoring for?

Just for the record, sponsors are buying nothing more than a banner ad and in some cases a sponsor forum. Their banner appears on the website to thousands of people every day. That is what their dollars pay for, nothing more.

Our choice to prefer them over other vendors is only in appreciation for that sponsorship, not out of any obligation to them. Expressing that appreciation by linking to the sponsor page when a question is asked is very much encouraged as is giving them your support by purchasing from them.

[Toadfish]

I think this site is great...Very informative and friendly people exist...I am fine with the explainaition given. As with any transfer of ownership there are wrinkles(No reflection on new or previous ownership, its just the way it always is). I think this was the assumption made and it's no big deal to me. Greg has gone out of his way to rectify and explain the problem, and that is indicative of effective ownership. The moderators and staff have always done an excellent job, I believe this to be an isolated incident. Johnny, regardless of the reasoning behind the deletion of the posts, the issue has been addressed and a clearer line of communication has been established...I hope that you would reconsider.

[Brooke]

[quote]Originally posted by thefatman
how can i NOT belive it was intentional? Because you have been told by Greg that there were problems and this is the truth. He tried to fix the thread to get it back and it was deleted. It's not the first time a thread has been lost here. Eventually you are going to have to trust what we are telling you.



But i do disagree with long time members being told they cant have fun here anymore. I don't remember seeing anything about this. TRT has always been a fun, friendly community.

We received many complaints about numerous posts endorsing one sponsor. Had we not received complaints...or seen a trend ourselves, perhaps the issue would not have come up. If you have actually purchased live rock from a company..then by all means, let us know if you liked them or not. We want our members to support and endorse our sponsors.


first, i think if yo uare not a PAYING sponsor, then you should not have the right to have a commercial signature or avatar. that right should be reserved strictly for paying sponsors.

This is up to the owners to decide. It has never been an issue for any sponsor before.

i belive sponsors SHOULD be allowed to post in a thread asking where to get something or anything else along those lines.

There have to be limits...even for sponsors. General reef discussion should remain a place for unbiased recommendations. Again, in over 4 years, this has never been a problem. Paying sponsors now have the advantage of advertising all they like for themselves in the sponsor forum..in addition to their banner ad, of course.

i found trt, and stayed because i liked the flame and vulgar free atmosphere, and the rules. i've never searched for a better place because i dont belive one exists.

I appreciate this...and my hope is that TRT will always be the friendliest reefing board around.


but i can't remain at aplace where members are denied access to potentially valuable information, or where people are prohibited from practicing free speach or recommending a place where they have had a good experience.

This is your *perception* of what might be happening...but none of it is true. Take a few deep breaths, clear you head, and put yourself in our position.

I'm sorry if some of you are upset about the sale of TRT. Trust me when I say this was not an easy decision. I will remain active on the site till I have the baby. I found no reason to go public with the sale before it was final. I know some of you are concerned about Greg's relationship with RC. Be asssured that Greg has been a long-time member of TRT and values the things that make us different and unique. His work on the administrative side of RC will be a great help to TRT. Please look at this in a postive light.

Thanks to everyone for their understanding and patience right now. I can assure you that keeping our members and sponsors happy is a top priority.

[kram138]

Originally posted by gregt
Just for the record, sponsors are buying nothing more than a banner ad and in some cases a sponsor forum. Their banner appears on the website to thousands of people every day. That is what their dollars pay for, nothing more.

How exactly are sponsors chosen? Do they come to you and say "I want to be a sponsor"? Or do you or one of the admins search out sponsorship? What criteria must then be met for one to become a sponsor? Is it only about the money? Just curious.

[gregt]

How exactly are sponsors chosen? Do they come to you and say "I want to be a sponsor"? Or do you or one of the admins search out sponsorship? What criteria must then be met for one to become a sponsor? Is it only about the money? Just curious.

Excellent queston. I cannot answer your questions outright as I have only owned the site for about a week, and I reserve the right to change my mind at any time. I can tell you that in general most vendors that I add will be those that I approach myself due to their reputation for quality products and customer service. Of course I will still consider requests from vendors, but in general the sponsors will either be those that are already sponsors or those that I contact.

[thefatman]

We received many complaints about numerous posts endorsing one sponsor. Had we not received complaints...or seen a trend ourselves, perhaps the issue would not have come up. If you have actually purchased live rock from a company..then by all means, let us know if you liked them or not. We want our members to support and endorse our sponsors.

did you ever question WHY there were so many posts endorsing one sponsor? it's because 1. that sponsor is active here. 2. that sponsor gives great prices. 3. that sponsor gives excellant customer service.

in gregs own words "I can tell you that in general most vendors that I add will be those that I approach myself due to their reputation for quality products and customer service"

and that is EXACTLY what i, and many others, have received from said sponsor.

i have made a number of purchases from this particular sponsor over the last few weeks and fully endorse them, and will continue to do so.

[kram138]

Who the heck was complaining about sponsor endorsement? That seems silly.