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10-29-2003, 12:20 AM
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#31
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senior member
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Walnut Grove, SC, USA
Posts: 13,641
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Quote:
Originally posted by BuckWheat
... I guess in short, if you don't know what your doing get professional help in setting up anything that can cause a fire or any hazard like this...
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groan...
very punny, but I don[t mean to make light of this...
...That would be shocking...
...and some of us don't know watt to do about this...
...as the rest of us are prolly insulated from the current crisis... 
SOMEbody STOP me!
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__________________
Tom <"))))>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato
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10-29-2003, 01:13 AM
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#32
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Little Fishy
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: fort belvoir virginia
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally posted by tdwyatt
groan...
very punny, but I don[t mean to make light of this...
...That would be shocking...
...and some of us don't know watt to do about this...
...as the rest of us are prolly insulated from the current crisis...
SOMEbody STOP me!
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mwaaaahahahahahahahah....
but this is a serious issue, people that have had fires are flaming mad... 
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proud member of
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10-29-2003, 01:42 AM
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#33
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Plankton
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bend
Posts: 25
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"to err is human.... to do it over and over again means you are a reefer"
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10-29-2003, 07:48 AM
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#34
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Big Fishy
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Georgia, near Atlanta
Posts: 822
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The thing that still concerns me, is that in at least several of these fires and near fires (according to posts on this board and RC), the end caps were apparently installed correctly, i.e. using the stand offs and firmly attaching them to the canopy. Admittedly I've only seen a handful of posts where this has been the case, and it would be informative to hear from more people that have had this happen to them. My guess is that only a small percentage of people have had fires, and an even smaller percentage have had them even with the end caps properly installed. But still, it's got me spooked.
I may be over-reacting, but I think I'm going to do like Graham did, and get rid of my VHOs and PCs, and go with just SE metal halides.
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10-29-2003, 08:33 AM
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#35
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AKA Scooterman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lafayette, La.
Posts: 352
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Quote:
Originally posted by tdwyatt
groan...
very punny, but I don[t mean to make light of this...
...That would be shocking...
...and some of us don't know watt to do about this...
...as the rest of us are prolly insulated from the current crisis...
SOMEbody STOP me!
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Make fun of me, I was a little overly doing it but this isn't a joking matter, so keep you whinny remarks to yourself please! Some people aren't the brainhead like you!
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10-29-2003, 02:32 PM
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#36
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squid
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 6
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From IceCap:
I'm late to this thread but as I read it I found myself ready to scream from the way it seemed to be heading. I had jumped into the thread on RC because I believe safety comes first. To read someone saying:
"I made the comments about the IceCap ballasts because I know of two different reefers in my local area that have had canopy fires, each of them reporting that the IceCap ballast had ignited just where the harness connects to it. Is is information like this, coupled with the information available in the other thread linked within that makes me steer clear of IceCap VHO ballasts. I have no other data that suggests any problems with the ballasts and many people swear by them. Personally, however, I have collected enough information to establish a pattern regarding these ballasts. A pattern that I want to have nothing to do with, and as such, will not own an IceCap ballast."
I don't sell anything that isn't first used on my 180g tank at home. IceCap may not be perfect but we know our priorities. For someone to have a fire where the harness meets the ballast, saltwater had to be added to the equation. Though sued, we have never been found responsible for causing a fire. We so exceed safety requirements that setting up your first IceCap VHO application is usually no walk in the park. A cost of putting safety first.
And now a correction. It was previously posted that:
"From what I understand of the topic, IceCap brand (or any brand for that matter) tend to catch fire if the rubber "O" rings are not being used in the end caps (improper installation), what happens is moisture and salt (main concern is salt creep) forms inside that cap and causes a short. short=fire."
Not so. Frankly I thought so also but in truth, the main reason is arcing between the lamp's pins and the endcap. That's not to say the seals aren't important. Over-tightening of the endcaps can cause them to crack. Mounting the endcaps properly (see link) and using UL approved components will avoid most problems. http://www.icecapinc.com/pdf/endcap.pdf When in doubt you can always call us, even with a non-IceCap product question.
My intent was not to fan the flames of this thread which so often happens when one defends themselves in a reef forum but if it spreads safety consciousness I'll take the hit.
Andy
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From IceCap, Inc.
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10-29-2003, 03:14 PM
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#37
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senior member
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Walnut Grove, SC, USA
Posts: 13,641
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Thanks Andy!
Sorry Buckwheat.
__________________
Tom <"))))>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato
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10-29-2003, 04:42 PM
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#38
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Reef Geek
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 659
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When used properly, these things are reliable and safe. I have used 110W VHO tubes over my reef for over 10 years. I am still using the same VHO endcaps I purchased 10 years ago. No endcap melt downs and no fires.
The conductors are pushed into the endcaps I use (I suspect they all work this way) and are trapped under spring loaded conductors in the endcap. It states right in the manual that specific wire should be used with these endcaps. Do we know the correct wire type and size was used by every DIY person on these boards and in our clubs?
As far as fires starting at the connector on the Icecap ballast, I use similar connectors to extend the length of the supplied wiring harness and to provide a quick way of disconnecting my hood from my stand. One day, I heard arcing coming from my tank and I discovered it was the connector on my harness. After unplugging everything, I noticed that I had not pushed the plugs together all the way the last time I disconnected the harness. Had I not noticed this, the connector would have no doubt, over heated and melted and who knows what. Was this Icecaps's fault? Of course not.
I also use these same connectors on a Normal Output fouresent fixture I have. While moving, I accedentally got some salt water in the connector (unknown to me) which later caused the connector to melt. The balast shut itself off when two of the wires melted together. Who's fault was this?
I guess the moral of my story is, please be carreful with electricity. Install a fire alarm near your tank. Use GFCIs. And finally, if you are not comfortable with DIY or your abilities, please DON'T, buy something turnkey.
__________________
210 Gal Reef 3X250 HQI, 156W T5 Actinic
90 Gal Now the refugium for the 210
55 Gal Reef 80W NO
12 Gal Cube 64W PC
10 Gal Hex 18W PC
Last edited by Schwaggs; 10-29-2003 at 07:14 PM.
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10-29-2003, 05:41 PM
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#39
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AKA Scooterman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lafayette, La.
Posts: 352
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I agree, as said earlier, sorry for the shrewdness of me stating it our responsibility to make proper installations and yes anything can be overlooked by the best of us but in most cases it is these little things we miss that become the culprit of disaster. Paranoid, me yea, I hate to see this sort of thing happen to anyone.
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10-29-2003, 06:10 PM
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#40
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Good boy
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Marietta, GA, USA
Posts: 7,882
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Thanks Andy for coming on here and clearing this up. I've been using an IceCap 660 for about three years and have never had a moments trouble. 
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10-29-2003, 09:48 PM
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#41
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Little Fishy
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chagos Arch.
Posts: 212
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Hummm, I was waiting for Ice Cap to chime in. Good though cause I saw their post on another forums thread and thought it was great. Nothing made is idiot proof, as good as DIYer's often are, there are those little things that sometimes get over looked. And of course there are a few people out there that should just let a Pro do the job. Personally...I build bombs and Missiles for a living and cant afford to make mistakes. Its rare I put a project together unless I am 110% sure I can do it right the first time. It is great to hear all of the information being posted, opinions too as they are just as improtant at times to be sure. I am not looking for someone to point the finger at, I am not form Califorinia and sue happy. I am just trying to find out what went wrong and how I can keep it from happening again. Thats was way more drama than I care to repeat.
Im my particualr case, the Fire Investigators have ruled out moisture, improper wiring and componet corrsion, but they arent done yet and are still looking at it.
I am just a bit puzzled still at this point cuase this was a completely assemble reto kit, appeared to be well assembled...although I am by no means a Q/A on electrical equipment...but it sure looked good and solidly built. I was very carefull handling it and installing it in the canopy. Had this been my "old" VHO set up, this wouldnt have suprised me as much as it did with this one that was only 4 or 5 weeks old. I am just looking for clues at the scene of the crime....Just hoping with all the talent and brain power that frequents the forum, I can find out what went wrong, or at least get a lead to chase down. Thanks everybody!!!
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10-29-2003, 11:16 PM
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#42
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Little Fishy
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: fort belvoir virginia
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally posted by ASH
From IceCap:
And now a correction. It was previously posted that:
"From what I understand of the topic, IceCap brand (or any brand for that matter) tend to catch fire if the rubber "O" rings are not being used in the end caps (improper installation), what happens is moisture and salt (main concern is salt creep) forms inside that cap and causes a short. short=fire."
Not so. Frankly I thought so also but in truth, the main reason is arcing between the lamp's pins and the endcap. That's not to say the seals aren't important. Over-tightening of the endcaps can cause them to crack. Mounting the endcaps properly (see link) and using UL approved components will avoid most problems. http://www.icecapinc.com/pdf/endcap.pdf When in doubt you can always call us, even with a non-IceCap product question.
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I would have to agree with this to a certain degree. I did not say that the endcaps were the major cause of most "VHO related fires" However I had a close friend who had a continuous problem with a german brand endcaps arcing (dont know the name). He constantly had to clean the endcaps of salt and moisture, later to realize that the rings were missing. As soon as he replaced the rings he no longer had the problem. A fluke??? Maybe, but a little to close.
Now I am a little confused. as far as the harness, isnt there a clip that locks onto the ballast??? if it is not pushed all the way in the lock will not snap into place??? I dont see how an error could be made...but this is an imperfect world and strange things happen. Lets just all hope that no one else falls victim to this horrible tragity. Good luck all
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proud member of
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10-29-2003, 11:38 PM
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#43
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Southern Oregon, Way West of Dimples ;)
Posts: 22,094
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2 IC 430 4+ yrs , no problems
__________________
When considering courage in battle, one should remember that there are 2 sides to every conflict.
The heroism of the losing side rarely gets remembered
but we were all husbands and fathers, sons and bros
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10-30-2003, 11:39 AM
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#44
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Reef Geek
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 659
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Quote:
Originally posted by mandarinfreek
Now I am a little confused. as far as the harness, isnt there a clip that locks onto the ballast??? if it is not pushed all the way in the lock will not snap into place??? I dont see how an error could be made...but this is an imperfect world and strange things happen.
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There is a latch but the assembler must push the connector together far enough for the latch to catch. It's not difficult to get the latch to catch.
__________________
210 Gal Reef 3X250 HQI, 156W T5 Actinic
90 Gal Now the refugium for the 210
55 Gal Reef 80W NO
12 Gal Cube 64W PC
10 Gal Hex 18W PC
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