VHO Fire this morning....... - Page 2

Caterham · 10-28-2003, 11:58 AM

I am glad to hear that the situation didn't get out of hand and that nobody was hurt. Thank goodness you were home at the time.

I made the comments about the IceCap ballasts because I know of two different reefers in my local area that have had canopy fires, each of them reporting that the IceCap ballast had ignited just where the harness connects to it. Is is information like this, coupled with the information available in the other thread linked within that makes me steer clear of IceCap VHO ballasts. I have no other data that suggests any problems with the ballasts and many people swear by them. Personally, however, I have collected enough information to establish a pattern regarding these ballasts. A pattern that I want to have nothing to do with, and as such, will not own an IceCap ballast.

It is great to hear that your parts are on the way. Best of luck getting the lights back on for your animals!

Caterham Cosworth
Southern by the Grace of God

Phantom Phish · 10-28-2003, 12:12 PM

Caterham:
I'm not sure if you're referring to the same thread I mentioned or not. If not, diregard the following. The thread I mentioned talks mostly about endcaps for VHO and to a lesser extent PC bulbs, and not so much about ballasts per se. It suggests that a lot of the canopy fires people have experienced may be related to the way the endcaps were installed in the canopys. Although the thread talks a lot about Ice Cap products (and there is a reply from IceCap), apparently some folks have had similar experiences with endcaps from other manufacturers/ distributors (PFO et al...).

Imaexpat2 · 10-28-2003, 05:50 PM

Up-Date;

Got the new end caps in today and installed with out a hitch. The ARO ballast is still working as advertised. Hello Lights is going to comp me on two bulbs so I just pay 2 day shipping (Thats too cool, great customer service in my opinion)

As for the cause...I got an buddy who works for the military arson investigation, thats checking things out for me. They initially looked at it and have pretty much ruled out moisture. They disassembled the end cap and the wiring seemed to be correctly installed. So it looks like this may have been a "freak accident" thus far. They are going to do some research and see if there were any recalls or advisories put out on all componets involved. They did determine that the fire started in the area of one of the prongs. Hopefully they can pin point a probable cause for the fire. I would hate to have this happen again if there is a way to prevent it.

Thanks to everyone for the comments and the information provided thus far. I most greatly appreciate it!

BuckWheat · 10-28-2003, 06:06 PM

Being that I use IceCap 660 ballast, I want to see the results of this scary nightmare!

Rick O · 10-28-2003, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Caterham
I made the comments about the IceCap ballasts because I know of two different reefers in my local area that have had canopy fires, each of them reporting that the IceCap ballast had ignited just where the harness connects to it. Is is information like this, coupled with the information available in the other thread linked within that makes me steer clear of IceCap VHO ballasts. I have no other data that suggests any problems with the ballasts and many people swear by them. Personally, however, I have collected enough information to establish a pattern regarding these ballasts. A pattern that I want to have nothing to do with, and as such, will not own an IceCap ballast.

Two ballast fires does not indicate a trend. I personally had a PFO ballast go up in flames last year but I'm not ditching PFO nor warning others to do so. Imaexpat2 indicated in a previous post that it was an endcap that caught fire, not the ballast. It sounds like you're trying to give Icecap a bad name.

Rick O · 10-28-2003, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BuckWheat
Being that I use IceCap 660 ballast, I want to see the results of this scary nightmare!

He's already said it wasn't an Icecap ballast.

Caterham · 10-28-2003, 06:58 PM

Rick O,

Thanks so much for your comments. I am opting to not be part of this thread from this point forward. If anyone would like to talk to me about the topics discussed within, please feel free to PM me.

Caterham Cosworth
Southern by the Grace of God

Alice · 10-28-2003, 07:00 PM

And in the canopy almost-fire that I mentioned, even though that was indeed an Icecap Ballast, the end caps and the wiring were old and cracked from the heat in the canopy. The guy wasn't running the fans and the reflective insulation over the wiring was torn.

Mrs Smith · 10-28-2003, 07:22 PM

We had a close call also - same toasted-marshmallow innards. I'm trying to remember how we discovered it, and I think it was a freak thing too. (Either that, or my keen sense of smell.)

I have pics somewhere...

We just replaced the endcaps, but ended up attributing it to a faulty seal, I think. No problems since.

Danielle

AquaticCo · 10-28-2003, 09:37 PM

One of the biggest problems that I have heard about endcaps is caused directly from the bulb not being installd correctly, I know that sounds strange, but what happens is that a mis installed bulb creates an arc from the actual metal in the socket and the probe on the bulb. This arching creates heat and fire in the endcap. This is why it looked like it did.

Glad you were home to catch it. It scares me to death to hear stories like this.

Doug

Graham · 10-28-2003, 10:06 PM

Man, I'm glad nothing real serious happened!

There was a thread on RC about this not even a month ago.
I did away with VHOs and this was the #1 reason. After I saw a pic of a dude's basement half crisped due to anissue like this, my mind was made up. Halides all the way - ceramic and aluminum aren't going to burn like plastic, and the chance of arc in a properly installed halide bulb is quite minimal.

If there is any kind of gap or moisture in the endcap between the pins and contacts, an arc is possible. A GFCI will not trip in a case like this (as you experienced). It is an inherent danger in this kind of setup where you custom fit your endcaps. I had an endcap melt on me when I was fitting my new canopy...some sleep was lost.

Icecap suggests having inward pressure on the bulbs to minimize any chance of electrical arc. I would seriously check their vendor forum on ReefCentral (or their website) to see their guidelines for safe waterproof endcap installation. I know you don't have an Icecap ballast, but the principle is the same. It was postulated that an arc-fault interruptor may afford some protection in cases like this, but I'm no electrician so I'd research that further before banking on it.

I put a smoke detector on my canopy for a little piece of mind in general (tank is in the basement)...but that won't help if you aren't home.

Again, glad you were able to catch it!

tdwyatt · 10-28-2003, 10:09 PM

ditto on the installation problem. Best to mark a spot on the bulb with a magic marker that is perpendicular to the plane of the prongs and use this as an index to make sure the prongs are properly seated in the endcaps. Icecap is prolly one of the premier products on the vho fluorescent aquarium market, bot very consciencious and excellent at resolving customer issues. Talk to Chris or Andy at Icecap with any problems that you have, they are always open to discussion on customer issues. I have had them for over 10 years and never had problems due to faults ( I have had at least 10 different Icecap setups and follow markets on these products)

mandarinfreek · 10-28-2003, 10:21 PM

From what I understand of the topic, IceCap brand (or any brand for that matter) tend to catch fire if the rubber "O" rings are not being used in the end caps (improper installation), what happens is moisture and salt (main concern is salt creep) forms inside that cap and causes a short. short=fire. One question(maybe a stupid one) did you have fans mounted into the ex-canopy. like stated earlier into the thread, chances are that heat was not the issue, but in times like these who knows. Lets just hope that noone else befalls the same misfortune.

tdwyatt · 10-28-2003, 10:26 PM

I'm more worried about the Rio pumps...

BuckWheat · 10-28-2003, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tdwyatt
I'm more worried about the Rio pumps...

Point Taken and a good one at that!

I'm a Electrical Designer, for over 15 years! Anything can happen, one of several things can happen, if a RIO burn out Hopefully it is submersed and at worst case shorts out and trips the GFIC! I do have slight pressure on my European endcaps, which are said to be the best but even with the best equipment and installation anything can happen. When it comes to electricity not even the geniuses even fully understand it! There is so many variables mentioned above I can't even think of a way to guarantee this from happing to you! I mean YOU all of you even with MH lighting, it is bull crap for anyone to say one is guaranteed not to cause fires, It can happen to any set-up! I guess in short, if you don't know what your doing get professional help in setting up anything that can cause a fire or any hazard like this, It is by all means your responsibility, It scares me and I try to check everything and keep my system as safe as possible but that is all I can say, I can't guarantee no major problems or dangers like fires and such. So word to the wise, be responsible and do your best to prevent anything like this from happing in the first place. Now with that said God bless you man, thank goodness you home didn't burn down, I pray I never have to come as close as you or any others that this has happened to .
Amen!
Scott A.