Refugium

[Kinesthesia]

I am on the brink of migrating from a "fish" tank to a "reef" tank and am researching ways to fine tune my tank. I've seen a few posts on this board about Ecosystems, etc (usually in threads on other subjects) and I am curious about specifics.

For example, I read that "Miracle Mud" is better than live sand, I'll buy that but can you get just the mud and put it in a sump with lights, etc. Rather than getting the whole Ecosystem?

And regardless, how much light are we talking about?

To be honest, the closest thing I have to a plan is to get some Tang Heaven and try and grow it in my sump. As it would serve two noble causes, removing nitrates and feeding my Tang.

And last but not least, regardless of which way *I* go, I'd really like to help with the Natural "cause". I was thinking of maybe a website detailing the process, how to go about it and maybe provide some pictures of thriving systems without "artificial" filtration? Any suggestions? feedback? Is this a lame idea, or has it been done ?

[horge]

Welcome to TheReefTank, Kinesthesia

Sure, you can just get the mud.
I have to point out that it is debatable whether the efficacy of Leng Sy's system rests on the 'mud' supplied or on the macroalgae you're supposed to grow in it.

I have certainly seen success that falls in line with advertised claims in 2 tanks that used a sand-and-laterite substrate in lieu of 'miracle mud'. This substitute-mud was seeded with mulm siphoned from the nooks and crannies of the live rock in the (older) display tanks.

Tang Heaven to my knowledge is actually the marine alga Gracilaria. The most efficient means of propagation is said to involve agitation/tumbling a mass of the alga within a tub of saltwater under good light. Needless to say, this is wicked tricky to do in the confines of a silt-laden, rectangular refugium.

But fear not! The various Caulerpa algae most frequently associated with macroalgal filters often find comparably great favor with many tangs, and indeed seem to be what Leng Sy's product is designed for. They are much easier to propagate than Gracilaria, though the latter seems to have a better rep as tang food.

I hope this helps, and keep those questions coming.

horge

PS: It's early, but duties won't permit me to predictably check in here until January, so... in advance,

Merry Christmas to you and to all on TRT!



[This message has been edited by horge (edited 12-15-2000).]

Welcome Kinesthesia The natural method as practiced the ATS systems and THe EcoSystem(both re registered trademarks) are fairly new to a lot of people on this board tho I think in practice most people become familiar with the refugium concept rather quickly.We are definatly interested in how these things work, how well they live up to the claims, etc. I personally am working towards the final touches on my new 75 gallon reef that will use my old 55g tank as a combo sump and refugium/growout area. 3/4 of the sump volume will be devoted to a sand bed and Macro algae growth for nutrient export, Ect.
One of the options being considered is adding some of the miracle mud if for no other reason than to add to and enhance the silt that is considered a vital part of a thriving sand bed. Another option is holding off on upgrading to a serious skimmer and keeping the one I have and devoting the nest year to the refugium/macro system and try weaning the tank off the skimmer I have. I think at this point given the light bioload I have I could easily spend the money on better monitoring equipment and adding to the biodiversity of the over all system, Then re evaluate in a year
Horge you scoundrel, at least you dont rub in the fact that its summer there(like you can tell) I dream daily of bathwater warm reefs and an endless supply of refreshing Beverages served in coconuts. Nice to see you pop in, We all miss you and hope things are going well. Anxiously awaiting your return, I am running out of tricks to amuse the masses Best wishes for the upcoming holidays

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I thought I was me, but we were wrong
email: geeflipr@internetcds.com

[TroyF]

I don't have anything to add other than hi to the new member and a hello to you Horge. Hope you have a happy holiday as well.

Troy

[Kinesthesia]

Thanks to everyone for the welcome. I appreciate the input. In retrospect what I was mostly looking for were lighting details. I am still thinking about trying to grow "Tang Heaven" in my sump, without a sandbed or anything but...

I just read an article in January '01 Tropical Fish Hobbyist that has all but talked me out of the whole idea. While the author listing the same attributes as the proponents on this board, he pointed out some negative aspects that I hadn't considered. Namely additional maintenance, yellowing water, etc.

[BHLOZEK]

I have the ecosystem right now and yes probably all u need is the refuigium with some oxygenating plants in it that is the point of the caulerpa in Leng's ecosystem method the mud is what really does all the work. How big of a sump are u talking about thats what will determine the amount of light u need and u should probably check out Lengs website at www.ecosytemaquarium.com this will tell u approximately how much mud u need. It's a great buy!!!!

[Kinesthesia]

Good point, I didn't offer much in the way of specifics. I have a 75 gallon tank, the half of my sump that may end up getting lighted is 12x10, and I've got a Rio2500 for a return.

Or... if I decide to go forward with this, I could use a 10 or 20 gallon from the closet and set it beside the sump and elevate it a bit and kinda have one sump for two tanks would be the simplest explanation in plumbing terms.

[BHLOZEK]

I have had mine set up for 5 months now and if u ;eave ir light in ur sump on 247 the caulerpa will not sense that time has passed and will not repro by excreting eggs and sperm into the water also it's less maintenence i reef tank at my local pet store has been setup for a year and has had no water changes done and minimal algae scrubbing (which ur tangs should Take care of most algae anyways). The Amonia is 0 Nitrate 0 and nitrite 0, get my drift.

[Kinesthesia]

So... how much light do you have over your mud?

I am planning on running 2-4 75 watt 24" VHO tubes over mine when al is said and done


------------------
I thought I was me, but we were wrong
email: geeflipr@internetcds.com