surge flush

SouthernReefer · 10-24-2003, 08:26 PM

today i built a simple surge device using a ball flapper valve and a 6gl. bucket today. i haven't gotten all the kinks worked out yet, but i am impressed with the amount of water volume it pushes out with just a 2" pipe, nearly 3gl. in just 3 seconds. but the only problem, is the trapped air that is stuck in the pipe prior to flushing. the air returns to the pipe after every flush. i've drilled holes , to let the air vent, but its bellows out. any input on how to correct this problem?
thx in adv.

Geoff · 10-25-2003, 01:01 AM

is there any way you can post a drawing/pics. i was never any good at word problems.

G~

SouthernReefer · 10-25-2003, 07:57 AM

i found a site with some decent plans for it. looks like my return plumbing is too big, need to reduce the output from 2" to 1", and shorten the length of the pipe as well.

Geoff · 10-26-2003, 07:38 AM

thanks for the update. do you have the URL for the site with the plans?

G~

tdwyatt · 10-26-2003, 12:45 PM

I was working on this problem a few years ago with a flush surge device, finally decided with all the salt spray and creep and issues with the glurgle return to abandon the project. One of the things that will help with the air trapped inside the device is to run a small diameter flexible pipe to just under the flapper valve from the exhaust side. Just as an aside, if you have any , and I mean ANY metal parts in the flush valve, plan to make the devide very accessable, as they will rust out inu no time, and all that iron is going SOMEWHERE, and nuisance algae LOVE *iron*...

...also experiment with shorter, smaller diameter pipe or a stack vent just the other side of the flapper valve that extends as high as the bucket reservoir's max water column height plus 6 inches. With the vent, you can use the larger diameter pipe., but it must be taller and higher than the maximum height of the water column you are flushing from, and preferrably a smaller diameter.

HTH

SouthernReefer · 10-27-2003, 04:11 AM

here's one site that shows the use of a smaller surge return line. and this site offers the carlson surge device plan.

tdwyatt, i don't think there is any way to stop the bubbles that these device make. one site offered a mpg of the surge device in operation, and it produced lots of bubbles. the 2" pipe that was first installed on the bucket that i built generated too much force for it to vent properly. when i reduced the pipe, the reducer allowed most of the air to be vented back up and out, but some still made it out. an improvement, but i like the surge the 2" pipe makes over the 1.25". i think i will put the project aside for now too.

tdwyatt · 10-27-2003, 08:01 AM

I know it can be done, I saw a product around the MACNA meeting in Ft Lauderdale that was almost (note: almost) bubble free and operated during the event with9ut aparent problems, I wrote the guy that was doing it at thetime, emailed him, but never got a reply, evidently he was sealing the device, selling it, but when it needed servicing, had no access for cleaning, etc, and went off the market. I am sure the device was sealed to hide some OBVIOUS resolution to the problem, just have not been able to devine what it is...

SouthernReefer · 10-27-2003, 11:22 AM

i capped off the the vent port on the flush valve just to see what would happen, and it seems to work fine now, only alittle air seems to seep in into the return pipe due to it not being submerged all the way. i might try and hook it up inline to the tank and see what happens.

SouthernReefer · 10-28-2003, 01:02 AM

i went ahead and connected up the surge device. and i am impressed with the simplicity, but i am getting lots of bubbles. from what i can telll, the flapper closes late, allowing air into the pipe. so much for mechinical perfection..... but at least i took the oppurtunity to change pump on my refugium, from the mag7 to a mag250. i going to remove the surge device from the reef. no need for extra bubbles, i got plenty of those

tdwyatt · 10-28-2003, 08:27 AM

you might try weighting the flapper, that is the closest I came to getting it bubble free for the exhaust.

SouthernReefer · 10-28-2003, 09:20 PM

here's a pic of the surge bucket operating. too many bubbles? who needs a oxygen reactor, when you have a surge flow like this rushing into your tank! the surge cycle would repeat once a minute, if it wernt for bubbles, it would be a neat project to keep up and running. i have a few more tricks and tweaks that can still be tried out.

td, i added a weight to the flapper, slight reduction in bubbles, faster surge cycle. i must have an air leak some were....

tdwyatt · 10-28-2003, 10:21 PM

HMMM... I DO have a few days off...