Sump - Best way to go?

[bfish5150]

Thanks everyone for the help with the selection of my RO/DI filter. I went with an ARS Oceanus 4-stage and I can't wait for it to arrive this next week.

To my question:
I'm thinking of setting up a sump. I've seen some people on a budget who use another aquarium inside their aquarium stand to act as a sump. They set it up with the bio balls and filter media, and even run their protein skimmers off the sump. I'm looking for opinions/advice on which sumps are best to set-up or is it better just to buy a pre-built one that is acrylic with all the bells and whistles? I'm also looking to get a protein skimmer as well and would appreciate any suggestions that way as well. I've also seen sumps that are combo with protein skimmers as well. Such as the model SR2 IN-SUMP Protein Skimmer from CPR in Arcata, CA. Their website is http://www.cprusa.com. I am on a budget, but I also know that budget and reef typically don't go together. Thanks for the advice.

[Ichthus]

Hey bfish. It really depends on you and what you want. I have been wanting a sump for a long long time and just got one last week. All I can say is Wah-Who!!!

I got a Tidepool sump and overflow from marineland. (http://www.marineland.com/products/c...con_tpsos.html and http://www.marineland.com/products/c..._tidepool.html ) The sump ran about $85 and the overflow $80. I went with this model as I had previously had an emperor filter and liked the filtration method, and with this model the water flows over a bed of charcoal and or phos-guard which rest on filter pads and then that water flows over a bio-wheel and that water then goes into regular sump tank which is then skimmed and pumped back into the display tank. I had a CPR Bak-Pak skimmer that hung on display tank, but I just modified it with a longer hose and dropped my sucky rio pump lower into the water.

Some people like the traditional method with the baffles, etc. It really dends on you and your budget as well as your tank size. My tank is a 65g and so my tank is only 12" wide. Many sumps I looked at would not work because of the width of the sump tank. They were too wide to fit underneath my tank as I needed one no more than 11 3/4" wide.

The week prior I had bought an oceanic model #2 w/o the media container for bio balls for about $80 ( http://www.oceanicsystems.com/products_aq_rrsumps.html ) but right off the bat it leaked (prob a fluke) and was too wide. I loved it though. I just didn't want to mess with making one. I had once built a bird house, and to this day I SWEAR that those same birds are following me around pooping on my car for the shotty workmanship I did.
Well, thats my .02

[Wrasse Man]

Hi bfish,

I suppose it really depends on what you want to acomplish with the sump. I am a fan of easy and somewhat natural, so my sump was a 20 gal tank under the stand with about 3 inches of fine substrate. I had a few rocks in there and let 3 different types of caluerpa go nuts. I also had my skimmer (Aqua-C EV180, I think it was a 180) sitting in there as well. I mounted some grow lights to the bottom of the display tank to light the sump and that was it. No baffles or anything like that. I noticed a drop in phosphates and nitrates (pulled out by the caluerpa) and a marked increase in pods and other critters that were living down there, and being sucked up into the main tank to feed the wrasses and corals.
The main thing I liked was that there were no pads to remove/clean/replace, and when I harvested the caluerpa, I put some in the main tank for the tang to feed on.

HTH

[thebigblue]

i used a rubbermaid container for about 6 months...until i read that they can break over time...so i switched to a custom made acrylic tank from here...

http://www.jmkdisplays.com/

there prices were very reasonable, and i could make it the exact size i needed...

i was going to put some elaborate baffles in the sump to help on bubbles from draining water and my skimmer, but by placing my skimmer in the sump, i can block all the bubbles and i didnt have to use baffles...if your sump is long enough, and you put your return pump on one end, most of the bubbles should dissapate before hitting the pump...

as far as skimmer, i went with a aqua-c ev180...

http://proteinskimmer.com/products/EV180.htm

...that i got from www.premiumaquatics.com

i ran it inline until i upgraded sumps, then decided to run it in the sump...it works great...

i also had jmk displays make me a smaller tank for a refugium...i had to use two different tanks to fit them under my 125 gal stand...

some guys section off there sump and have an area with sand to grow macros...sort of combining a sump with a refugium...

how big is your tank?....how much room under it?...what kind of budget?...do you want to do a refugium?...

when i first setup my tank i looked at some retail sumps, but decided i could do EXACTLY what i wanted by designing one myself...and for the same of less money...

HTH

brad

[Big Dave]

Hey bfish-

I would use any old tank, rubbermaid, or custom sump you can get. It is one place you can save money. Your sump will not be seen so cosmetics aren't too important there. The baffles can help keep bubbles from getting to your main tank. Once they hit your return pump they get turned into micro bubbles. Also if any snails or other critters get into your sump it can keep them from getting to your pump.

As far as your skimmer, I have my skimmer sitting next to my sump, the water is pumped to it from there. I extended the return off my skimmer which returns to the sump. I have a CPR SR6 skimmer, which I love!! That thing skims like a monster. One good feature on it is the collection cup has a drain tube on it, so there is no worry about spilling the cup when removing it or an overflow of skimmer gunk. I took a 2-liter bottle and drilled a hole in the cap big enough for the tube to drain into. It holds the smell in pretty good too! Cleaning is very easy on this model too, which reminds me, it's about that time! HTH

-Big Dave

[Doug1]

Bfish, with your fish load I would think about an algae refuge and or a big skimmer. I wouldnt worry about adding more bio balls or wet dry, rather reducing the nitrates . I really dont care for the ready made sump with built in skimmer, they are so easy to make and I prefer to choose components. Keep an eye out in the Tribune or the nickel paper and see if you can find a nice used 40 or so, that would make a good sump for a 100

[Harpo]

Bfish, we too believe in keeping it simple and cheap. And as Doug was saying, wet/dry becomes a nitrate factory, something you hope to avoid.

We use a rubbermaid refugium that spills down into a rubbermaid sump, never had a problem.




Save your money for the things you can't cut corners on.

Harpo

[bfish5150]

Thanks everybody for the help with sump/skimmer info. Doug- what is in your opinion the best way to set-up an algae refugium? And the best method for attaching a skimmer to it? Do you have your system set-up that way? Very interesting what you said about the wet/dry being a nitrate factory, I certainly don't want that. The algae refugium would be handy for feeding the tang some algae now and then. Lighting requirements for the algae refugium?

[bfish5150]

Advantages/Disadvantages comparing refugium vs. sump? Cost comparison. I have a link on my message post for the my tank specs, but if that doesn't work let me know. I'm looking for something that is good quality, not necessarily ultra-low budget, easy to maintain and set-up. Doug1 mentioned wet/dry sump being nitrate factory and recommended algae refugium? Ideas regarding that? Thanks.

[Doug1]

My sump is my old 55g tank divided into
a 2/3-1/3 arrangement, with baffles built in, the return pump and skimmer go in the smaller side as well as a float valve that tops off water to replace evap.
The wet/dry is very efficient at converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate but the reduction of nitrate to free nitrogen normally occurs in a low oxygen environment, like inside Live Rock or deep sand bed, plenumn, etc.
Thats where algae comes in, macro algae will utilize the nitrates ,phosphates and other metabolic by-products, locking them into algae tissue. By harvesting it frequently you have a pretty simple export mechanism, esp if you have a decent skimmer after the algae phase to aid in removing left overs

[Doug1]

heres a couple shots, I hope

[Doug1]

OK trying again, first one was the right side showing the baffles and the out flow side, this should be the left where water comes in

[reefcam]

Harpo and Doug1,

I noticed your water level was fairly high. just wondering what happens when power goes out? Do you have an overflow issue in the sump?

[Harpo]

When I do water changes, I always turn off the return pump, which allows all water to settle into the sump. To this day, I have never overflowed.

Bfish, this is not only inexpensive but very efficient.

Harpo

[Doug1]

Reefcam, the pics are decieving, my overflows only let the main tank drain down about 3" and the return side of the sump (15x18) is only half full so if the return pump goes off their is still an inch of leeway in the sump