Really trick wavemaker

Hey Gene, I found the URL for the wavemaker device I was telling you about the other night. This thing looks interesting and I would love to hear from anyone whos had any luck building one I guess you'll want the url:http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM/Aquarium/CirculationSystem.html
check this one too:http://www.aquatouch.com/surge_b.htm

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I thought I was me, but I was wrong
email: geeflipr@internetcds.com

[This message has been edited by geedoug (edited 10-12-2000).]

[gpohly]

These descriptions of the innovative solutions for wave/surge generation are both very interesting. The Michelson surge device is especially interesting because the mechanism can be located away from the tank and the outflow pipes just plumbed to the tank. The other "dump" devices require considerable space above the tank.

I think I'll build a version of the Michelson surge device. I have to wonder about some of the mechanical details of the device, though. Most specifically, the seal around the motor shaft that drives the valve body in the PVC fitting. Seems an O-ring is called for, and that normally takes special tooling to machine such a custom joint, unless he has come up with a simpler way. Any ideas?

As an alternative, I'd bet you could do the same thing w/ two PVC ball valves modified at the handle mount to be able to turn completely around coupled to a motor/gear drive torquey enough to turn them at the valve stem....that would avoid any special machine work.

Glenn

How would you gang the 2 ball valves together, providing you found a 1 rpm motor with enough torque to rotate them?

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I thought I was me, but we were wrong
email: geeflipr@internetcds.com

[Flanelcamel]

Hey guys
Just thought I'd jump in here on this one. I got real interested in the michealson projects last year and did make a couple attempts at different valves. I tried the 2 ball valve idea but found coupling the shafts together and mounting a motor on it to be to complicated. I simplified it to a 3way type rotaing valve and it worked, but the seals leaked, I tightened them too much and broke the darn valve! Anyway I finally purchased a Haward 3way ball valve and a 1rpm motor strong enough to drive it from Grainger and this combo is working very well. I have it mounted behind a wall with my pump, also need no more power heads!!! It cost just over $100 but so did playing around with all the other failed attemps. This concept of wave makers is the best IMO. It puts no stress on your pump, puts no bubbles out and gives the tank a very natural sway and random patern. My leathers love it. If you guys want the part #'s let me know, there is still some creative work to get valve and motor to work together but thats what DIY is about right? Hayward does sell a motor to fit directly on the valve but that puts the price over $300!
Ray

HI Ray, that sounds great. I really wanna get together with you soon. I'm dying to see the new tank and this motorized valve sounds like just the ticket. I havent made the last couple of reef club meetings due to my on call schedule but I am giving up the delivery truck to be an office type so hopefully my scvhedule will be more open. Glad to see you on here again

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I thought I was me, but we were wrong
email: geeflipr@internetcds.com

[gpohly]

Hi Doug & Ray,

Ray, your solution is elegant, but I have to wonder if the three-way valve doesn't have a period in its rotation during which neither outlet is on? If not, which valve did you buy; if so, have you found that the backpressure during the "OFF" period causes your pump any problems?

Doug,

I drew up a couple of ideas for coupling two valves together with one motor, but apparently can't attach images to these posts. I'd be happy to send them if you are interested, just need an e-mail address. Most stuff is available through Grainger at reasonable cost; the right-angle long-shaft transmission in my drawing could be a trasmission/differential from an RC car from a hobby shop, w/ the AC motor speed adjusted accordingly to account for the gear reduction in the differential.

My interest in building one of these just grew greatly because my ugly 8-week old RIO an an Osci-wave hanging into my tank quit yesterday. I'm sure it's under warranty, but it is a major pain to R & R in my custom cabinetry. The no moving parts near the water of these solutions is infinately more appealing.

BTW, Michelson shows numerous black and clear fittings in his photos; do you know of sources for this stuff? I dislike the white & gray PVC against my black tank back...

[Flanelcamel]

Good question! It turns out you can get 3way ball valves with or with out an off position. Obviously you want the one with out. When the right side is closing say to 80% the left will already be at 20% so there is always 100% flow, it slowly shifts from side to side taking 60 sec to come back to where it started. The valve I got is a 1" and has a mounting pad on top for their actuator and a short sloted shaft. It also is a union valve so you can open it and replace seals when needed. Those clear fittings you want are pvc and can be found at www.savko.com I believe, but they are expensive! HTH
Ray

[gpohly]

Ray,

Thanks for the info! I do want the part numbers; I have both a Hayward distributer and a Grainger near where I work, so this is the ticket I'm sure. I'll even photograph and document the build process for benefit of other DIYers.

Glenn

[Flanelcamel]

Glenn
Here's the #s I used.
Hayward 3way valve 1" #HCNT1100THCTE
Dayton gearmotor #3M095

Like I said earlier they don't just snap together, you need to make a coupler for the shafts to adapt and make a bracket to support the motor on the valve. Still easier than machining a new valve though. The 1" valve requires a motor with 50 inch lb. torque to move. If you get another size valve you need to match the motor torque to it. Have fun!
Ray

[DownRigger]

Can you post a photo of the finished product ?

[Reefkeeper]

holy COWWWWWWWW....

sory guys, not being one to speak DIYese, most of those were just a bit to complicated for me.... the links are great Doug!
I think that Rays 3 way sounds about the best, and is real similar to one that is available commercialy. I do have to wonder, if it is going to cost you over $100, wouldnt it be as good to buy a sea-swirl? mine were 139 each. not as fun, Im sure, but then with my plumbing skills..............

catch you guys later,

Gene

[Phisher]

I was looking at a motorized ball valve we ordered at work today. This was a single valve that was normally in the open position, when 120v is applied the valve closes. I'll try to find out if it comes in a Y configuration. Hook it to a wake maker and see what happens. We use these for plumbing in water source heat pumps so Im sure they would hold up good. if anyone is inerested let me know and Ill post my findngs.

[TheAquaman]

I understand Reefkeeper,

I don't do DIY very well either, but I did find a workable solution to my needs, The Silent Surge by Lavoie technology, you might get mixed reviews but I've had great luck with them and excellent customer service from the owner.

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www.magicnet.net/~jwhite/aquamans.html

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But life consists of small things.

[gpohly]

Well, the parts have arrived at the distributors, just gotta go get 'em and build the mount/coupler. Opted for a 3/4" valve since my tank is only 50gal. and won't need as much flow as the 1" will provide.

Aquaman,

I looked for the Lavoie device, but the search engine results I got refered to broken links, and never could find a description of the Silent Surge.

Reefkeeper,

I checked out the Sea-Swirl device you mentioned. The type of circulation it provides is similar to that of on osciwave, where one outlet alters the direction of flow. The DIY we discussed here is designed to provide two outlets, one at each end, with the hope of providing flow first in one direction across the tank, and then in the other, slowly switching between the two outlets every 30 seconds, hopefully adding a simulation of wave surge going into and then away from the reef. Even with two Sea swirls, which appear are "always on", I don't think you would get the same type of motion. Not that one way is better than the other, it's just different. (Besides, DIY is fun, and a new DIY project is always a reason to justify bying some new tool

'Course, to be ideal "back-and-forth" motion, you would also need to be able to remove the water from the end of the tank the water was srging to, perhaps by an overflow box at each end?

Another advantage of this device is that it can be used with your existing return pump. Since the valve used never has an "off" position - it is always 100% "on", just directed between two changing ports - even if the rotating motor failed, flow to the tank will not be interrupted. No additional pumps needed, but couldn't hurt either. (The Sea-Swirl also works this way, it would appear.)

So, I'll post pictures when done...probably next weekend project, though, been traveling all week and gotta prepare for big garage sale this Sunday.

Glenn

[Flanelcamel]

Glenn
I think you will really like how the valve works. Heres another thing I did to get real good circulation, I made a manifold on both ends of the tank with 3 loc-line flex outlets on each. I can easily adjust the wave direction and move it as I see how the corals react. I have not seen a better working wave device anywhere. I would have posted some pics for you guys but do not have a digital camera! Sounds like a good DIY project. HE HE

Have fun
Ray