Plumbing concerns - Ball Valve not functioning properly

[ShirleyM]

On our 125, the back is drilled about 6" below the top. This is the RETURN. The drain is a corner built-in overflow, opposite corner.

The ball valve prevents the water from backflowing through the external pump and into the sump, which would overflow the sump by quite a large number of gallons. The ball valve quit working properly, so we changed it out. The new one worked for two water changes (pump turned off, water filled sump properly to within an inch of the top) Today it quit working properly and just kept filling as it was backflowing into the sump. I of course closed the gate valve to manually close the line up tight.

Next time we have a power outage, even for 5 minutes, we will have a flood.....what can we do to fix this?
Pics attached to show the situation...
Thanks so much, Shirley

[Doug1]

Is the ball valve in actuality a check valve to keep water from draining thru return line during power off?

[ShirleyM]

Yes, that's what it's called. I couldn't remember the name, but I remember "check valve" now that you mention it.

[Rick O]

Shirley I would never trust one of those to prevent a flood. In the best of conditions I'll bet they leak at least a little bit. Can you lower the normal operating water level in the sump so that it can hold all of the water that will drain back into the sump in the event of a power outage?

[galleon]

Shirley, the valve you manually closed is called a ball valve. A gate valve has a wheel that threads to push down a solid gate inside the valve, like on spigots.

With check valves, the plumbing arrangement should be as follows (going backwards): return, ball valve, union, check valve, union. Monthly, kill the power, close the ball valve and take out the check valve. Check it for wear, clean it out, make sure the seat and swing gasket are making a good connection. Try to make sure that you are going straight to the sump, if you must use a 90 ell, use two 45's together, this helps stop backpressure on the swing gasket, keeping the valve from "burping" and trickling.

Chris

[Casey]

Yes Shirley those check valves are famous for sticking open
especially in sw. Casey

[ShirleyM]

Originally posted by Rick O
Can you lower the normal operating water level in the sump so that it can hold all of the water that will drain back into the sump in the event of a power outage?

The sump is an AAMiracle with the wet-dry part removed (bio balls, etc) This was a used tank when we bought it. The sump water is just a couple inches above the pump intake hose, drilled into the lower side of the AAMiracle. Any lower and we get massive bubbles in the tank. Also, even if it were empty, the 6" of drained water from the 6' long tank would overflow the sump.

This is majorly scarey to me. We WILL have a power outage, and even if we are home, if we are asleep, we won't know until it's too late. We've already had three minor floods from this tank, the largest being about 10 gallons fresh RO water when the RO tube was not properly inside the sump - it kicked on and never kicked off...I'm afraid our tank will end up in the crawl space and we'll have a hole in the floor where the tank once was....Behind the tank is the wall that separates the entry foyer with the stairs to the basement, the wall being only about 4' high, and vaulted ceiling above, stairway behind, and the basement begins with the stairway, it's a 1/2 basement, 1/2 crawl space.

The sump is in the stand, and I don't think we can get a larger sump in there, since this one was put in before the tank was set on top of the stand. There are four cabinet doors across the front of the stand. It's a custom-built stand, made by the first owner.


Shirley

[Casey]

Shirley is it acrtlic sump or glass?

[Geoff]

you may also want to check that check valve to metal parts. when i was setting my system i was looking for check valves and all the ones i found that looked like the one you are using used a metal spring. metal scares me.

G~

[Spanky]

http://www.marinedepot.com/a_ft_2.asp?CartId=#cv

Shirley, we've been using these guys for years. So far (knock on wood) we've never had a mis-fire.

[ShirleyM]

Chris, after reading your post, here's what we have:

PVC with Ball Valve out of sump and into pump. (pvc pipe, ball valve, pvc pipe, pump) Then Clear aquarium tubing, no 90 degree angles, up to top of inside of stand, where there's another ball valve and connect with PVC pipe continuing in straight line up to Check Valve, then 90 degree turn and 1" or less later, straight into aquarium, 6" from top.

We changed this right after New Year's, so it's quit working properly very quickly this time.

Yes, if we did an on-off a couple times before, the check valve would sometimes work, but this time it didn't. And, the time electricity goes off may be the time it doesn't work, regardless when we last cleaned it out.


Shirley

[ShirleyM]

Originally posted by Casey
Shirley is it acrtlic sump or glass?

Acrylic

[ShirleyM]

Originally posted by Spanky
http://www.marinedepot.com/a_ft_2.asp?CartId=#cv

Shirley, we've been using these guys for years. So far (knock on wood) we've never had a mis-fire.

We are going to order one of these...nice that you can see inside them!

As for the spring, Geoff, I don't know. It was just a cheap check valve from Home Depot or Menards.

Any more suggestions? Any more pics needed beneath the stand?
Thanks a bunch!
Shirley

[Casey]

Shirley why cant you drill a small hole for a bulkhead fitting about an inch below the top of the sump run a hose from it to a remote jug somewhere ? I have used milk jugs 5 gal water bottles anything to just hold water in case of a overflow. Casey

[Spanky]

How's this?

If I'm understanding this right, the return/s are 6" below the water level on the inside of the tank. Can you use a 90 on the inside to raise the returns higher?