zooanthid poison ?

[chrisjet]

I receiveed some new zoos today and was in a rush and handled them quite a bit without gloves. None of them broke open they were all closed and i dont have any open wounds on my hands, however about 30mins later my hands felt worn out and tired - as if they were asleep? They have felt that way for the majority of the day although now it is seeming to subside. I am assuming this is poison from the zooanthids - BTW they were red zoos. Anyone ever felt something similar or know had this happen ?

[ChilisREasy]

zoas & palys carry a neurotoxin called Palytoxin..only 0.004 micrograms is needed to kill..NEVER handle them without protection, if it gets worse see a hospital right away..but there is no anti-venom

[ChilisREasy]

tho i have touched palys alot in my time & they can be REALLY slimy..never had any effects..its only deadly if it gets inside the blood stream

[hng]

Yep, very toxic and no cure. I've read that people react differently to it though, some very mildly while others have severe symptoms. It's NEVER a good idea to handle zoas or palys with bare skin for extended times and certainly NEVER when you have a cut on your hands.

[ChilisREasy]

& i ALWAYS have cuts on my hands

[superwizbang]

Zoas have a neurotoxin called Palytoxin (sp?). Anyhow, it is quite powerful and can prove fatal even in low doses. Fortunately, it seems much of the "mythical reefer" word is that it won't harm you as long as you do not have cuts on your hands or decide to go licking them or rubbing them in your eyes. 8) There are also certain species which do/do not contain toxic levels of this poison. Most of what I read state that many of the larger, more drab zoas which are green/brown in coloration are the ones to worry about. The second linked article below even suggests that zoas only store the chemical made by the sybiote dynos. *shrug* Who cares where it comes from if you can't breathe I guess.

Anyhow, here are a couple of interesting links about palytoxins that I found in a RC article not long ago...scroll to the point of interest:

http://www.asanltr.com/newsletter/02...eurotoxins.htm
http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Palytoxin.html

[ChilisREasy]

Originally Posted by superwizbang

*shrug* Who cares where it comes from if you can't breathe I guess.

that happens everythime i get in my tank & i dont even have zoas any more LOL

[ChilisREasy]

funny those are the same symptoms i get Every time i get in my tank...can other corals cause these reactions ?

[superwizbang]

Actually all corals produce some form of chemical defense which is stimulated during a stress event...you know, the slime we all see. Depends on what kind of allergies you have. I am very sure that there are folks who are allergic to the chemicals produced. You never know until it's too late to take it back. As every one mentions, if you have some form of sensitivity to things such as eggs, bee stings and such, it will forever be wise to take extra precautions when handling your inhabitants.

-K

[ChilisREasy]

i hate to have to start wearing gloves

[superwizbang]

Better than wearing a coffin I suppose. 8)

[skeety]

Agreed. ALL corals have these toxins...but some are very weak, others can be quite strong.

Zoa's, paly's, anemone's, any Euphyllia (hammers, torches, frogspawns, etc) are the main ones to worry about.

But everyone reacts differently.

My hammer messes with me more than any other. Every time I bump that guy, my spine tenses up instantly. Most of the time I don't see me bumping it, but know I have because my back muscles tighten up right away, then I look down, and sure enough, I've bumped it.

Gloves are a good idea. Not always convienient or practical...but if you choose not to wear them, be aware of the risks!!

If you don't feel better by now, you probably should consider seeking medical attention.

[Jeremy1973]

I have handled zoas and paly's quite a bit with no gloves, and on occasion with cuts on my hands or arms. I guess I have been quite blessed to have had no reactions at all. Good reading though, thanks for the links!

[mcliffy2]

From Wikipedia:

Palytoxin is an incredibly complex marine natural product containing 71 stereochemical elements. Palytoxin, isolated from soft coral, is considered to be one of the most toxic non-peptide substances known, second only to Maitotoxin. Professor Yoshito Kishi's group at Harvard University first synthesized palytoxin in 1994, but it was originally isolated in 1971 in Hawaii from the seaweed, "Limu make o hana"^[1]. This feat is still considered today by many to be the greatest synthetic accomplishment ever.[1]
Palytoxin targets the sodium-potassium pump protein by binding to the molecule such that the molecule is locked in a position where it allows passive transport of both the sodium and potassium ions, thereby destroying the ion gradient that is essential for most cells.
Typical symptoms of palytoxin poisoning are angina-like chest pains, asthma-like breathing difficulties, tachycardia, unstable blood pressure, hemolysis (destruction of red blood cells), and an electrocardiogram showing an exaggerated T wave. The onset of symptoms is rapid, and death usually follows just minutes after.
Animal studies have shown that vasodilators, such as papverine and isosorbide nitrate, can be used as antidotes. The animal experiments only showed benefit if the antidotes were injected into the heart immediately following exposure.^[2] Treatment in humans is symptomatic and supportive.

[mcliffy2]

More info:

Palytoxin was first isolated from the soft coral Palythoa toxica. Several species of Palythoa are used in aquariums, but do not produce the toxin. Originally, it was only found in a single tidal pool on the island of Maui in Hawaii and native Hawaiians used to coat spear points with a red seaweed from the pool. Toxin-containing corals appear to be randomly and sparingly distributed throughout the South Pacific and there is now a school of thought that suggests that the coral is simply concentrating the toxin made by a dinoflagellate (a small single-celled organism) called Ostreopis siamensis.
___________________

Palytoxin: A New Marine Toxin from a Coelenterate

Richard E. Moore ¹ and Paul J. Scheuer <sup>1

1</sup> Department of Chemistry, University of Hawaii, Honolulu 96822

Palytoxin has been isolated from the zoanthids "limu-make-o-Hana" (Tentatively identified as Palythoa sp.) as a noncrystalline, chromatographically pure entity. Apart from polypeptide and protein toxins, it is the most highly toxic substance known, with a lethal dose (LD₅₉) in mice of 0.15 microgram per kilogram by intravenous injection. Unlike the potent toxins batrachotoxin, saxitoxin, and tetrodotoxin which have molecular weights of 500 or less, palytoxin has an estimated molecular weight of 3300 and contains no repetitive amino acid or sugar units