Yellow Leather?

Casie · 03-26-2002, 05:25 AM

I'm on call tonight, so I've been surfing to kill some time... and I found an article written by Eric Borneman back in 1997 that warned against placing leather corals in the same tank as SPSs. It said something about yellow leathers (Sarcophyton species) being the most toxic and explained that they could be fatal to Acro's without even touching them! Is this dated news? Or is this well documented and I just missed it?

My 4 new acro frags have fully extended polyps and vibrant colors... and I WANT them to stay that way, even if it means finding a new home for my yellow leather.

I have plenty of room in my 90 gallon so there should be no competition for light/space to provoke chemical warfare. And the leather is a good 12 inches from the closest Acro frag. What do you guys think?

Rick O · 03-26-2002, 05:53 AM

Chemical warfare is real. I don't think it's fully known what triggers it but you don't neccessarily have to worry about it happening. I have softies (including sarcophyton) and SPS mixed in my tank and have never had a problem with chemical warfare. If you ever decide to frag your leather then it should be removed from the tank to make the cut. This will lessen the chance of any toxins released from the leather reaching your SPS. That being said I'm going to soon frag my huge leather and it will be impossible for me to remove it from the tank as it's attached to a large base rock. However I will do a water change afterwards and run carbon.

Brooke · 03-26-2002, 09:27 AM

I'm sure the information is accurate. Maybe the yellows are just more toxic than other sarcophytons. We have a mixed tank including sps, lps, mushrooms, leathers, etc. We have lost a couple of sps frags due to them being placed to closely to other sps or diving into our torch coral. We're still working on placement of all of our frags (good problem to have).

Many sps purists recommend not keeping softies in the same tank. It can be done, with caution, of course. We do continuously run a small amount of carbon.

Brooke

tdwyatt · 03-26-2002, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Casie
I'm on call tonight, so I've been surfing to kill some time... and I found an article written by Eric Borneman back in 1997 that warned against placing leather corals in the same tank as SPSs. It said something about yellow leathers (Sarcophyton species) being the most toxic and explained that they could be fatal to Acro's without even touching them! Is this dated news?

This is indeed true. This is the primary means that Octocorals gain competitive advantages for real estate on the reef. Many studies in the published literature on this, dating back into the late 1980s and on. Yuri Sorokin published an early study on this topic in which he attributes the changes in population dynamics in octocorals to their ability to make allotoxins:

Quote:

...Since the majority of Octocorallia and many Zooantharia are associated with zooxanthellae, their vertical distribution on the reef is restricted to the euphotic zone, where they have to compete for available space with the scleractinians... ...the ability of Octocorals to compete with scleractinians, and other sessile reef organisms, is mainly a function of their chemical defense arsenal, and relatively fast growth rates. The Indonesian reefs are a natural laboratory, where different community interactions between soft and scleractinian corals may be studied side-by-side. It is not uncommon to view during a dive along a 200 m reef track, a scleractinian-dominated community that rapidly changes to a mixed scleractinian/Octocoral community, which in turn gives way to a soft-coral-dominated community. What biotic and abiotic factors are responsible for these community mosaics is not known...
--Yuri Sorokin, 1991

Sarcophyton are indeed the most potent of these allopathic terpene producers, followed closely by Lobophytum and Sinularia. Many of these substances are currently being studied for potential use as chemotherapeutic agents in the treatment of certain types of cancerous tumors. Fortunately, most of these substances will adsorb to activated carbon, and are easily removed from the water column via skimming. Systems that have mysterious demise of scleractinians in general (not just "SPS" corals) can usually be traced back to some terpene-associated attack. Although it is possible to have mixed-community tanks in the home aquaria, be forewarned that the possibility always will exist for terpene-based failure to thrive for the scleractinians in such systems. It usually requires close proximity for this system to be triggered, but some species will produce low levels of these toxins as part of their daily metabolism. Skimming and carbon will reduce the chance for such problems, but ideally, systems would be either scleractinian-based or lagoonal octocoral-based in order for the individuals to reach their maximum potential.

I can't say a thing, I run a mixed community and I run it skimmerless as well. However, whenever I see anything start to look bad, I immediately begin skimming and change the carbon in the sump and start a HOT magnum with the chamber full of carbon as well.

Hope this helps, if you would like a bibliographic reference sheet, there is a good list in both the Sorokin text and the Tomascik text, or any good marine bio book. This is a well-documented phenomenon in the scientific literature.

Casie · 03-26-2002, 12:34 PM

Thanks for helping me make sense of this Rick, Brooke and TD. =)

I'm going to leave everything as it is, and just keep an eye on that leather.

Lol! Finding that article last night really threw me for a loop, but I feel a bit better about it now. I've always taken it for granted that the leathers were a family of non-aggresive corals!

Funny how each time I feel like I'm really on top of things with my tank, it has this marvelous way of reminding me how much I still don't know. =D

Thanks again!

reefguy · 03-26-2002, 09:42 PM

i've been wondering something about yellow fiji leathers for some time. i've seen that many places online that sell them call them a restricted species and their arrive alive guarantees do not hold for this particular coral. is that because they are not hardy or are they delicate shippers (or both)?

SteveNichols · 03-26-2002, 09:46 PM

They don't like to go from here to there.

reefguy · 03-26-2002, 10:01 PM

that's what i figured...something yellow in my tank would be really striking

Rick O · 03-26-2002, 10:08 PM

I found yellow sarcophytons to be more difficult to care for in the beginning. The LFS I got mine from had three of them die in his tank before I got mine. And in the beginning mine was touch and go. Strong lighting and current seems to be the key for these whereas most sarcos will do well under much less lighting and water flow. I hope no one minds if I show it off.

Rick O · 03-26-2002, 10:09 PM

Forgot the pic.

Casie · 03-26-2002, 10:31 PM

Whoa Rick! That is stunning! What a pic!

Mine is just now starting to open its polyps for feeding. Like you said it was a few weeks of touch and go... and I totally agree with the strong water flow to make em happy. =)

I suuuuure hope one day my leather looks as happy as yours does!

Yellow Leather?

Re: Yellow Leather?