Whats the best filter metod for a reef???

[bad mantis shrimp]

Hi Everyone!

Well to start out I have a 75g tank in which i am getting serious about reefkeeping. The tank has been up and running for about 6 months now. I have a Basslet and a small clown, some polyps, open brain, bubble, umbrella leather, few anenomes, tree coral, few worms, banded and fire shrimp and a handfull of blue legged crabs. The spects are as follows.
Ph-8.3
sal.-.1025
nitrate- under 5ppm
kh-9
calcium- havnt started dosing yet because lfs's are still on back order for kalk.

I have about 90 pounds of live rock so far, 2-3" aragonite bed, 2 150w HQI's, 2 96w actincs, and 3 1w moonlights. No plans for a skimmer. I plan on adding a closed loop with an alternating current.

OK and now for the question. I have a 20g long sump that cycles about 450gph. Right now in the sump I have a DIY 5g bucket full of bioballs which I made when i first got the tank. Now i realize bio media is not a good idea for reef tanks but did not know this 6 months ago. I want to completly redo my filter method before its to late. Ive been doing alot of research on refugiums, DSB's and so on... There seems to be quite a bit of contraversy. Can anyone describe a complete filtration method that has worked for them??? I plan on doing mostly all sps but want a little of everything.

thanks for the help guys

[wharyat]

I just use my live rock, dsb, and phosphate removal media, every once in a while i will use some carbon.

Lots of flow in the display helps a lot.

I also run a skimmer (main part of my filtration).

[Justin]

Since you have had the bio media(balls im assuming) theres a good chance that theyve established some good bacteria colonies and particpate in the stability of your tank.
Good idea to remove em. But, I'd do it at least in the course of a month.For example,(cuz i did the same thing a few months back) take a few handfulls out each weekend.
My bio balls were only in for maybe 2 months top, but still went slowly and saw no visible cycling of the tank.

[bad mantis shrimp]

what did you use after you took out your bio balls?

[Justin]

well, i have the tray as i mentioned before and I use that cut it yourself filter pad, line the tray and make a sandwich with carbon in the middle(mmm ) then on the crate where the bio balls were i simply cut another square of filter pad and place it on top(helps kill a little bit of the bubbles from gettting sucked up the return).

[btang]

Why no Protein Skimmer? Seems that is a big part of the setup?

[Geoff]

for a reef all you need is a really big skimmer and some LR. a big UV sterilizer is not a bad idea either, but only if it is used before the skimmer. lots of flow to keep the detritus moving and you are good to go.

G~

[Jessezm]

I agree--why no skimmer? the cost? If you plan on keeping acros, I just don't think it's a good idea to run w/out a skimmer with your setup. Maybe, just maybe, if you had a plenum or deep sand bed (6" +), or possibly a mud filter with lots of macro algae that you harvest, but I don't see with your setup how you'll control the eventual buildup of nitrates without constant, massive water changes. You'll end up spending less on a decent skimmer than on lost corals that eventually succumb to an excess of nutrients. And with a skimmer, you'll still need to do water changes.. But really, why no skimmer if you plan to do acros?

[bad mantis shrimp]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

The reason i have decided not to use a skimmer is because a guy at a local fish store talked me out of one. He is somone i trust and have been good friends with for awhile and hes the only person i can find that really knows what hes talking about. He told me that in a reef tank especially, while a skimmer takes bad nutrients out it also removes nutrients that are needed to. We talked about this for awhile and by the end of the conversation he talked me out of buying one that day.
Now i do have a skimmer that i dont think works properly which was why i was going to buy a new one that day. I got it from the guy i bought my tank from, its about 24'' high and 5''dia.. Now i havnt really researchedskimmers but i think its a counter current. Its made of 3 tubes. The outer tube is where the intake is at the bottem, the water comes in, goes swireling up then goes down the second tube to the bottem then enter and goes up and out the last tube which is only about an 1''dia.
The problem with it is it doesnt collect any foam. every once in a while enough foam will build up to spill just a little into the collection cup but not very often. Ive read cups are supposed to be emptied a few times per week but mine doesnt make anywhere near enough foam to empty it once a week. Can anyone help me with this problem? and maybe if i get it running right ill run it in my tank

[Jeremiah]

Get a skimmer and you will be much better off. There are quite a few that would do a good job on your tank that don't cost to much.

[wanareef]

Sounds like the skimmer wasn't dialed in or just didn't work. A small beckett skimmer will work, or one of those recirculating skimmers.

Like Geoff mentioned - skimmer , lots of flow aka CL, LR, a fuge and a UV

[Andrew3]

with 90 pounds of live rock and 2 small fish, you'll be fine removing the entire bucket with bioballs immediately. True, there may be some beneficial bacteria on the bioballs, but there's a whole heck of a lot more in your liverock if it's decent quality (porous, lightweight, etc like fiji).

I run one of my small tanks with no skimmer, no wet dry, nothing for filtration other than a shallow rubble bed, live rock, and a single powerhead. I do frequent water changes to keep parameters up. Going skimmerless is possible, but you'll probably end up having to spend more maintenance time if you want the system to thrive.

You can find excellant skimmers for that size tank in the $175-300 range. www.marinedepot.com has a rating chart for many skimmers based on efficiency and bang for buck, IMO it's pretty precise, and worth checking out if you decide to get a skimmer.

HTH
Andrew

[Loverotties]

Skimmer and rock!

[Justin]

I have a Basslet and a small clown, some polyps, open brain, bubble, umbrella leather, few anenomes, tree coral, few worms, banded and fire shrimp and a handfull of blue legged crabs.

- bad mantis shrimp

with 90 pounds of live rock and 2 small fish, you'll be fine removing the entire bucket with bioballs immediately

- Andrew3

Has a good amount of life actually.

But whoa, yah, your LFS friend is right. But thats why water changes are important; to replenish, as well as supplemental minerals if need be depending on stock.
Totally past the fact that you didnt have a skimmer but there may not have been as big of a need because it looks by your stock and all your live rock and sand,that the amount of poop/problems is fairly low esp. for a that size of tank. But hey, could mean the difference between 5ppm Nitrates or a big fat 0!
(mmm )

[Casey]

Just get a sump/refuge add a skimmer good flow thats all you need