what about all these additives

[noah]

I have had my reef set up for about three months now and am some what confused on how much additives should be used. I set up my plenum based reef tank referencing "live sand secrets" by Bob Goeman. in it he states that additives should be used very sparingly as you are trying to create the most natural enviroment possible and he also states that when using aragonite the substrate should supply most of the essentials and additives should rarely be needed. I however have not found this to be the case. I use a 4inch aragonite bed and seem to be using a heavy amount of additives to keep everything within the right parameters espescially calcium. I find myself using the maximum recommended amounts and still somtimes falling a little below where i want to be mainly with calcium. is this normal to use so much does anyone else have this problem. the additives i use are calcium, iodine, carbonate buffers, strontium molybdium, kalkwasser, and very rarely add some trace elements.

[FishDaddy]

Hi Somethings Fishy,
I would recommend discontinuing all the additives except kalkwasser and regular water changes while your tank is maturing.
Good salt mix with regular water changes (I do 10% every 2 weeks and drip kalk for all top off water) provides all the trace elements your tank needs. There is controversy as to whether such things as Iodine and Strontium need to be added at all and no one knows what amounts would be needed even then.
Use of 2-part additives, such as B-Ionic, instead of kalk can be useful to bring Ca levels to desired levels while kalk is good to maintain those levels. I've always just used kalk.
IMHO, an aragonite bed will provide some calcium buffering but its main function is for denitrifcation and to harbor beneficial bacteria and infauna.
All tanks will have daily variation in pH and trying to chase target parameters can can be problematical. Take your readings at the same time each day. A new tank in particular is going through a maturation process and its better to let this proceed at its own pace instead of tinkering with chemical additions. It will take a properly set up and maintained reef at least a year to reach maturity and balance.
It is also important during this phase to keep bioload down as infusion of food and fish wasted can add to excess nutrients that your system isn't yet ready to process. Patience is the keyword at all stages.
Here are some valuable sand bed references: http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog...ek_090698.html http://www.reefkeepers.org/faq/cache/33.html
HTH,
Dick

[MiNdErAsR]

Originally posted by FishDaddy:

It is also important during this phase to keep bioload down as infusion of food and fish wasted can add to excess nutrients that your system isn't yet ready to process.

I disagree here. You want to feed the system, sparingly at first (ramping up), in order to promote the population growth of your infauna (detritivores). Note the population will rise and fall, directly dependant upon your bioload.

Other then this issue, I agree entirely with FishDaddy. The only thing you should be adding to your reef tank is some sort of calcium and alkalinity supplement (B-Ionic, Kalk, etc.), makeup water (preferably RO/DI), and food.

IMO, IME

[ 04-24-2001: Message edited by: MiNdErAsR ]

[FishDaddy]

Thanks, Jim,
We really don't disagree; the tank's inhabitants do need food; my point was aimed at not trying to fully stock a tank with fish
in the early stages (this tank is only 3 months old) but to do so slowly and incrementaly over time. I perhaps didn't express this as clearly as I should have.
Dick

[noah]

Thanks for the info. That was pretty much what i have been trying to do is build the bioload up slowly to grow more biological bacteria or whatever is going on down there. I have been trying to get a drip system for my kalkwasser but none of the LFS seem to ever have them anyone have a D.I.Y. drip system they could explain. I know it couldn't be that hard. Ill try to lose some of the additives. do you really not need iodine I always heard it was real important. I also have been fighting a minor battle with cyanobacteria I think its called could that be because of the additives. I heard it was mainly from high nutrients.

[smpolyp]

What are your perameters of the tank. Cal/Alk?

[MiNdErAsR]

Iodine is great for cuts & scrapes, not your reef tank. Here's why...

Levels above NSW (0.06 mg/L) can be deadly to inverts. Excessive levels promote premature molting in crustacea, which can be fatal. There are no test kits (at the hobbyist level) that can accurately measure iodine in your tank, so you are basically playing Russian roulette, when using iodine as an additive.

If you do regular water changes, you're adding iodine. If you feed your tank (especially marine algaes), you are adding iodine.

IMO, IME

[MiNdErAsR]

Sorry...double post.

[ 04-25-2001: Message edited by: MiNdErAsR ]

[Doug1]

Cyano is always present in a tank, its a very important component of the food chain, that sometimes gets out of control when the right conditions exist. High nutrients, low circulation, and pH/alkilkinity imbalance can all feed a cyano bloom. Do not use antibacterial quick fixes. Check your source water for nitrate and phosphate, use only RO/DI for make up and top off, watch feeding, increase circulation, and siphon as much as you can. As far as Iodine and the other trace elements a good salt mix and feeding should provide plenty. It takes some diligence but cyano can be controlled.

[tdwyatt]

I also have been fighting a minor battle with cyanobacteria I think its called could that be because of the additives. I heard it was mainly from high nutrients.

Julian (Sprung) uses a radio analogy to describe the effects of trace elements on nuisance algal growth. He describes algal growth as being like the sound that a radio makes. Trace elements are the volume knob, nitrates are the on-off switch, and lighting is the electricity (batteries or AC). You can't really have any sound from your radio unless you have all the components, but the more you turn up the volume knob (trace elements you add), the louder you make the music...

[ 04-25-2001: Message edited by: tdwyatt ]

[Peter_]

What about the antenna?

[noah]

usually I can mantain the alkalinity at about 110mg/L which is right in the middle what is recommended 105-125. Another thing I dont understand is on the back of the test kit it gives conversions one that says if you multiply your test result by .02 that will give you the reading in mEq/L which is the form it is in on my carbonate buffer. only on the carbonate it says to keep your tank at a minimum of 2mEq/l and it should be around 4-5. By my calculations the test reading would be off the chart for the mEq/l to be that high at 125mg/l the reading would be 2.5 I beleive, so what am i missing or doing wrong. Oh yeah my levels. the calcium usually varies between 350-400 a little lower than I would like.

[noah]

what about a D.I.Y. drip reservoir anybody?

[smpolyp]

If I'm doing the conversion right your alk is 2.2 meg/l. I would say it is low. And you state that your cal is 350-400. You have a balance of cal/alk, but it is a little on the low side. What ever you decide to bring up these levels is up to you, but I would try and bring them up.