Wet-Dry/Sump vs. Canister Filter

[dcsteve72]

I've been reading for a while on the boards as well as visiting my LFS and asking tons of questions and I guess a lot of fish parenting has more to do with personal opinion than other factors.

Money aside, I've been seeing several posts as well as chatting with the people at LFS about the purchase of a canister filter vs. some form of wet/dry system.

One scenerio is just to get the canister system (Fluval 404) and that's it. Another tells of a wet/dry system.

Here's the deal with what I'm working on... I've done freshwater tanks for a few years. Been out of it for a while but finally settling down to a place that I don't plan to leave so I'm making the move to reef.

Got a 90 gallon tank, heater, etc. etc. as well as the Fluval 404 system. I've pretty much put myself on hold for a few days until I can make sure that I have all my ducks in a row with this.

This beckons the need for some advice in using the filter, wet/dry, or sump system; be it a happy combination of the three, one, or none!

Help would be greatly appreciated!

-Steve
dcsteve72@yahoo.com

[Macaw Guy]

Steve-

Welcome, and Glad you asked it!

If anyone can also guide me in the right direction...I want to go sump but am not sure what the ideal size would be for a 75gal.

Also, some DIY instructions wouldn't hurt (I'm frugal, er, cheap). Thanks in advance!

Andrew

[beach bum]

Every system has its pluses and minuses IMO. And you are right, personal opinion has a lot to do with what is "right". I think if you want to keep a "reef", that means taking into account the needs of reef type critters.

First of all, although the canister filters suffice for freshwater systems (in concert with water & filter media changes), a fluval 404 would probably supply an insufficient amount of nitrification. And does nothing for the removal of nitrates, which should be kept to the minimum in a reef setup. The buildup of particulates in the filter media of the fluval will also contribute to an increase in the level of nitrate, unless those built-up wastes are cleaned from the media frequently. IMHO a Fluval 404 would be really pushing the low end for even a freshwater 90g aquarium.

For a reef aquarium, I think some form of live rock (LR) is indispensible. First, in sufficient quantity (1-2lbs/ gallon) it provides the primary biological filter, removing the need for a Fluval. Second, the biodiversity on the LR adds to the "natural" beauty of a reef tank. You are creating a living system and the more diversity you have in critters, the more niches in that eco-system will be filled (ie- detritivores). Third, it gives you a place to mount your corals, etc.

If you choose to use a live sand (LS) substrate, that will only increase the level of efficieny of your "natural" fiter system with the additional bacterial breeding grounds. It also gives a home to any detritivores you may add later (or some that work their way in off the LR) like various worms, various 'pods, ministars, etc...

A trickle filter that incorporates a sump would be the better choice of the two. Although many people (including myself) do not use them at all. A nice efficient protein skimmer would be money well spent for the health of your reef tank, regardless of what type of filter system you use. I would recommend investigating protein skimmers a little further before you make a final decision. They can be designed to fit directly into the sump, along with heaters and any filter media you may feel like using at some point (ie- carbon on occasion).

What is your plan for the use of LR/LS? That will help dtermine the rest of the setup. Other people should chime in here to give you some different takes on this as well,

HTH, Chris

[Macaw Guy]

Thanks Chris.

I can't speak for Steve, but I'm introducing 5-10 lbs of LR every 4 weeks. I've also just gone through a substrate change (previously large crushed coral) to aragonite and LS. I still have to remove some crushed coral as part of the substrate change process.

For a 75gal, what do you think is the "right" size for a sump system? I have access to a 30gal tank to use as a sump but I also have a 20gal and I'm not sure what would be considered overkill.

Thanks!

Andrew

[beach bum]

Dunno what size would be overkill, a 30g would probably work great, it depends on if it will just house equipment like skimmer, heater, and probes, or if you want to double it up as a refugium as well. In either case bigger would probably be better. More room to play with!

[dcsteve72]

To expand a little more on the rock/sand issue, I'm going to start with about 60-75 pounds of live rock and then add as needed to get the desired "look". As for the sand, I've been told several stories about the amount of sand that one should use. I'm going to go with about 2 inches of live sand.

In my travels around the net, I found a few web pages that talk about the pro's and con's of a sump. One specific page actually gave a semi-decent image of what they recommend.

http://www.coralreeftanks.com/pages/...er_system.html

If you check out this web page, you'll see two images. One with the bio-balls and one without. I've seen a few of these setups in the stores. These images still include the skimmer which seems to sit either inside or outside the sump system -- depending on which option that you choose.

Using the layout on the second image, the water would come from the tank, filter thru the bio balls, mix in with whatever water is being housed in the sump, pumped out to the skimmer and then pumped back up into the tank to complete the cycle.

I think my plan is to go with something similiar to the second layout. Include the heater in the sump system and then look at some other options for the chemical filter system. Since I'm not really sure how often I would need this chemical filter system, I need some recommendations.

-Steve

[Doug1]

Sump, I have a 55g under my 75
The canister filter can be a valuable asset for maint but not needed full time
LR and DSB will handle majority of bio filtration, and a good skimmer will also help, you can use it less as the system matures

[beach bum]

from my limited experience I can tell you that there are only two times I use a mechanical filter. Once in a while after I do a water change when there is alot of debris in the water colum, and when I have a leather go crazy with the shedding thing. It is my understanding that the main use for carbon media (or other chemical media) in a reef aquarium is to remove dissolved organics and toxins released by corals. It can also prevent yellow-ing of the water, but partial water changes prevent that too.

Oh yeah, I used a couple big emperor 400's when I was curing the live rock!! Then I yanked 'em!


In the bio-ball system there should be a baffled area somewhere that you could drop in a couple bags of activated carbon if you felt like it.

If you have "Natural Reef Aquariums" by Tullock, he discusses all this and has pictures of a few different sump setups that are simple, and house the necessary equipment. In one photo he has removed the bio-balls and placed a large pouch of activated carbon in its place.