Weekly Discussion: Nutrient Mangament strategies

[jenglish]

Originally Posted by Elegance Coral

I know you don't want me to answer this one.

I was actually thinking of you and Geoff when I typed that!

[Jadinop]

Originally Posted by biowheel

Pretty simple actually . 34g Red Sea max Tunze skimmer LMB and 6 line . Tons of corals . 5 gallon water change every week . new bulbs every 4 months
That's it . No carbon,sponges or pre filters .just flow . Some dead spots .I change the current twice a month . Meaning I move the PH directions
Everything does well especially my birds nests

The first simple thing that I would try is your water change amounts. Small multiple water changes take longer to remove the amount of nutrients that a larger water change does. I'm posting a link below but here is an excerpt of the basic principal using phosphate for an example.

To lower phosphate from 2.0 mg/L to 0.2mg/L using 25% nominal volume water changes would take 8 changes and 16 gallons of saltwater for the 10 gallon system

Using 10% water changes, it would take 22 changes- 17.6 gallons of new saltwater for the 10 gallon system

These numbers are just an example and work under the assumption that there is no further nutrient addition which is not a realistic situation.

http://www.reefs.org/library/article...htbill_wc.html

[biowheel]

Originally Posted by Jadinop

The first simple thing that I would try is your water change amounts. Small multiple water changes take longer to remove the amount of nutrients that a larger water change does. I'm posting a link below but here is an excerpt of the basic principal using phosphate for an example.

To lower phosphate from 2.0 mg/L to 0.2mg/L using 25% nominal volume water changes would take 8 changes and 16 gallons of saltwater for the 10 gallon system

Using 10% water changes, it would take 22 changes- 17.6 gallons of new saltwater for the 10 gallon system

These numbers are just an example and work under the assumption that there is no further nutrient addition which is not a realistic situation.

http://www.reefs.org/library/article...htbill_wc.html

Thanks . I'll give it a try . My tank smells like a nutrient jungle. It doesn't smell bad but I feel if I put a seed in it .The seed would germinate overnight like time laps photography

[biowheel]

Originally Posted by Elegance Coral

Yes. It's nutrients. It's not that bad though. I bet there's some small little thing you could change that would fix your algae issues. Talk to us about your system and how you run it.

Any thoughts ?

[Elegance Coral]

Originally Posted by biowheel

Any thoughts ?

I guess you missed this post?

Originally Posted by Elegance Coral

That's probably your problem. You're not removing much detritus. When Sprung and Delbeek came out with their first book, advising us to go without mechanical filtration, I removed mine for about a week. I saw the amount of detritus building up in my sand and rocks and about flipped out. If you're not removing it, it will simply decompose and release phosphate and nitrate into the system. This fuels algae growth.

If you don't have some form of mechanical filtration, particulate matter will simply settle in your LR and sand where it rots. In a small system like yours, it doesn't take much detritus to fuel algae problems.

[biowheel]

Originally Posted by Elegance Coral

I guess you missed this post?



If you don't have some form of mechanical filtration, particulate matter will simply settle in your LR and sand where it rots. In a small system like yours, it doesn't take much detritus to fuel algae problems.

It's a tough one to do in this tank . The LMB is like a Great Dane. I can't get the proper flow in this tank . I have a MP40 and may stick it to the side glass . I also have 2 K-2's ? There are so many corals in the tank blowing on the rock doesn't do much .There isn't enough detritus in the tank to fuel all this growth . It's a BB tank .
So what your recommending is a sponge insert to collect debris ? I have the sponge for it. I'll put it in tonight .
Whats your thoughts on the 25% WC ?
I did miss the post Sorry !

[biowheel]

Sponge is in and I added a K-2 . Lets see what happens .

[Elegance Coral]

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, the amount of flow in the tank should be determined by the type of animals you're keeping. You run the risk of stressing corals (and some fish) by continually increasing flow to keep detritus in suspension. Once you find a flow rate that your animals are happy with, I'd stick with it and look for other ways to manage detritus. That's just me though.

Simply moving alot of water around doesn't remove detritus. You need something to trap and remove the detritus that's flowing through the system. Mechanical filters are great at this. The down side is that bacteria will colonize the filter elevating the nitrate level of the system. To get around this problem a great deal of the bacteria living in filter would need to be destroyed fairly often. Washing the filter with a little bleach and allowing it to air dry works well. To do this you would really need to have more than one filter. This way one can be in the tank while the others are being cleaned.

IMHO, the reason you are seeing algae on the LR is from detritus build up in the rocks. The flow in your system keeps exposed detritus in suspension. At least until it finds a calm spot in the rocks. There it sits, decomposes, phosphate from this process binds to the rocks and is taken up by algae. I didn't notice a real algae issue on the glass or other surfaces in the tank. Just exposed areas of LR. Coraline algae seems to be growing well on inert surfaces like glass and plastic. This tells me that there is a problem with phosphate bound to the calcium carbonate of LR. I'm having this same issue now myself. Only your tank is closer to being cured than mine is. If you remove the detritus with mechanical filtration, it can't settle in the LR, decompose, and fuel algae blooms. Bacteria on the LR will liberate the remaining phosphate from the LR, algae will take it up, and when you remove the algae, the phosphate goes with it. Eventually the rock gets striped of phosphate and can no longer support problem algae. Just think of detritus as tiny packets of fertilizer.

[jenglish]

Originally Posted by Elegance Coral

In my opinion,

Yes?

[biowheel]

Originally Posted by Elegance Coral

In my opinion,

Ok I have to admit there was alot of stuff in the WC when I started the K-2 up . Took a bit for everything to get used to the flow but all good so far

[biowheel]

Originally Posted by jenglish

Yes?

Not sure either

[Elegance Coral]

Originally Posted by jenglish

Yes?

Originally Posted by biowheel

Not sure either

Man yawl are quick. I started the post, then tried to hit the "go advance" button, but hit the "post reply" button on accident. It's been a rough day.

[biowheel]

Originally Posted by Elegance Coral

Man yawl are quick. I started the post, then tried to hit the "go advance" button, but hit the "post reply" button on accident. It's been a rough day.

Too funny . I'll try a big WC in the next day or 2 .I'm concerned that a 25% will put a lot of the corals out of the water Not sure how to deal with that .
I'll try the sponges too. I have plenty of them but no bleach . can I use gas ?

[Elegance Coral]

Originally Posted by biowheel

Too funny . I'll try a big WC in the next day or 2 .I'm concerned that a 25% will put a lot of the corals out of the water Not sure how to deal with that .
I'll try the sponges too. I have plenty of them but no bleach . can I use gas ?

Not unless you want an Exxon Valdez biotope.

It's hard to do a large water change when you don't have a sump. Especially when you have a prized birds nest sitting right on top. If you do it, just make sure you have new water ready to pour in and syphon the water out of the tank as fast as you can. I'd use at least a 1/2" ID hose and have enough empty buckets to hold all the water I was removing. That way the critters would only be out of water for a few minutes. They wouldn't have time to dry out.

[Jadinop]

If corals are going to be above the water level be sure to TURN THE LIGHTS OFF. You can quickly burn or dry out your corals. With the lights off, a few minutes above the water won't cause any damage.